Is It Autism That Needs to be Cured? or Something Else?

O,

I think you possibly misunderstood the part concerning "scientific basis", here's the site I quoted from.

https://autisticuk.org/neurodiversity/

These genes have existed throughout evolution but have only been seen as problems for less than two centuries. Why weren't these seen as problems before the 19th century? (Rhetorical)

There's a scientific basis for the differences in a brain, but there's no scientific basis that these differences are wrong or incorrect. There's no scientific evidence whatsoever that ND is incorrect. 

Apparently there's only one correct way to neurodevelop and every other way is wrong. The only basis they have to say it's wrong is because it is different, that's their basis. A culture is developed, since there's only one correct way only one culture can be correct according to their basis, according to their basis LGBTQ+ people have something wrong with their brain because they've neurodeveloped in a different way. At first they thought gay was a psychiatric health disorder just because the brain had a difference. The basis of these conditions being disfunctional is because they are different, you spoke of nothing wrong with differences, the scientific basis is differences in a brain are wrong and incorrect.

Can you share with me how they came to the conclusion that if a brain develops differently there's something wrong with it?

The reason these were not seen as problems before the 19th century is because before the 19th century they were no such things as mode, median or mean/average. So there was no average brain functioning, no average brain chemical, no average whatsoever. Since they were not problems then I don't think they should be seen as problems now.

You might understand the quote better if you read the article I linked.

I'm going to try to respond from top to bottom about each point you made here. I'll try and make my responses as concise as possible but I think this will be long response either way so thank you for reading it, whoever does. :)

"is there actually any such thing as a pathological or normal brain?":

- If by pathological you mean an neurodivergent brain (someone with autism, bipolar, DID, ADHD etc.) I would say yes because there have been plenty of people who have had brain scans and there seems to be a clear difference neurologically between people with the above "conditions" and people who are neurotypical.

"Neurodiversity is an essential form of human diversity. The idea that there is one “normal” or “healthy” type of brain or mind or one “right” style of neurocognitive functioning, is no more valid than the idea that there is one “normal” or “right” gender, race or culture."

- I would say that Neurodiversity is an essential part of human diversity and society as there has been a lot of technological advancements with in our society that have been created by autistics people, and also but those who aren't but I would say the some of the main ones are because of autistic people. I would again say that there is a strong case for the a type of "normal" brain because as I said there has been measured differences between "ND" and "NT" people via brain scans and we (autistics) take up about the same percentage of the population as ginger haired people. Normal gender is a separate conversation in my mind therefore I think that is a good comparison, different race & culture is just a fact of human existence there isn't 'right' or 'wrong' just 'different' again I don't think that is good comparison because it's so different when comparing to autism, maybe culture to a point as I would say there is "autistic culture".

"The classification of neurodivergence (e.g. autism, ADHD, dyslexia, bipolarity) as medical/psychiatric pathology has no valid scientific basis, and instead reflects cultural prejudice and oppresses those labeled as such."

- I think that's wrong to say there is no valid scientific basis for those classifications as there clearly is. Again I refer to my above statement about brain scans taken, and even so you can clearly tell that we are on a fundamental basis different from most people you just have to talk to us for 5 minutes there isn't a way change that. It seems to me that but that point you might think there is no difference between two people who have completely separate conditions eg. someone with autism vs someone with bi-polar, when they are very different conditions with very different 'symptoms'/traits. I can see the that there would be prejudice as there always is with people who are uneducated. "people fear what they don't understand". Using the words "oppression" or "oppresses" needs to be used with care, there is is no ACTUAL oppression upon us by the wider population, as I said there are people who have created amazing for society that are autistic if there was true oppression that wouldn't have been allowed to happen. I'm a Jew by birth (I don't believe in god but I need to make the point) so I've been relatively well educated about what true oppression is and what that leads too.

"From my view, pathology in this case is a neurological version of racism."

- I think that you chose the wrong choice of word there, I think prejudice would be a better descriptor. I do think that people would be prejudice towards us but that's because of the wrong stereotypes that they have fed on throughout their lives and I would say that's down to us to educate these people and teach them that what they think about us is wrong.

"What is the scientific basis to claim a brain is disfunctional just because it functions in a different way?"

- I think the scientific claim of disfunctionality mainly refers to people who have higher to highest support needs because they cannot function in the working world as well as the normal NT person might for example and I think that is something that needs to be addressed in society better but it's a very hard thing to figure out. An autistic person who is non-verbal will obviously find it harder than most who are not to navigate through the world if we measure it from that level on analysis anyway I am aware that it is much more complex than that.

"The average excuse is flawed, average is nothing but a statistical artifact, so the “normal brain” is not natural, it's artificial made out of statistical artifacts."

- I'm not sure what you mean but the "the average excuse is flawed". I don't think you can throw out the statistical analysis if you don't like the term "normal brain" you could change that too "a more numerous type of brain" but you'd still get the same result. You cannot deny that there is a higher population of people that are not ND and they make up most of the population on earth therefore they are norm we can't change that. (I didn't really understand your point here but I tried my best to respond)

"I could get the average running speed from a school, some students will run faster, some slower. The faster and slower runners will be distant from the average, does that mean they have over or under functioning legs because they're away from the average? No, of course not. So does a brain being away from an average really mean there's something wrong?"

- I like the analogy it just comes done to the fact that some people can do things better than others, BECAUSE they are built differently. Just like how we are neurologically built differently than most people hence why we are autistic. I don't think that there is something wrong with us I think that we are just different, and the world wasn't created for people like us because we do no appear as much in the general population and that's why we need different "things" to help us get by and navigate the world.

"A formula of how to determine at what measure the brain turns from normal to pathological is required in order for it to be scientific, if there is no formula, there's the evidence "pathological brain" is determined by neither science nor nature, it's determined by cultural prejudice which is not a scientific basis."

- I don't know the term "pathological brain" for me that means someone who is sick/ill and needs medical help if someone is suicidal they need medical help, if someone is schizophrenic and hallucinates they need medical help. But someone who is autistic who for the purpose of my point does not have schizophrenia and is not suicidal does't need medical help they just need a support system in place to help them, a councillor/therapist, good friends they can talk to that can help them with things they struggle with, a good family again to help them with things they struggle with.

"Which means as I've always believed, Autism, Dyslexia, ADHD, Bipolar etc. are not disability, are not diseases, are not mental health issues, they are simply adjectives and reference points to describe natural variation in neurodevelopment."

- Yes I agree with you on that I don't think it's a disease or mental health issues, when it comes to disability I think in some cases it can be because it can "disable" in some situations from doing certain things but that is subjective to the individual. I too think it's a various variations in neurodevelopment.

Thank you I liked this post

O

Good afternoon everyone, thank you for posting and using the online community. Could we please remember to be nice to each other and respect the Community rule number 4:

'Be nice to one another and enjoy chatting with others. We encourage conversation and respectful debate'

For more information, please visit: https://community.autism.org.uk/p/rules. 

Thank you,

Anna Mod

You didn't share you misunderstood until your previous response, if you had told me in the first place I never would of thought that. 

So again, if someone says something that seems just ridiculous or doesn't make sense ask them what they mean.

If you asked me I would of been able to share with you I do not believe that the struggles will vanish just by a paradigm shift alone, it will take more than that. Like providing a suitable environment that they can function in, like where you've mentioned bipolar, a residential home is an environment they can be both protected and function when not in mood swings.

It's all about providing a suitable environment and paying more attention to the abilities that come with these conditions that are nonexistent in others. About 90% of technology was invented by people on The Autism Spectrum because of the variation in neurodevelopment, because it's variation we have various challenges.

Autistic people can do thing neurotypical people can't.

Neurotypical people can do things Autistic people can't.

So why exactly is only one called disabled, every neurodevelopmental condition that start from in the womb come with abilities that are nonexistent in neurotypical people.

Agreed.  And my different way of thinking has served me well.  But I sure as Hell wish my sensory system wasn't the way it is - I'm beginning to understand that within it lies the reason I have monumental phobias of both my own body and medical people and situations, not purely the adverse medical events as a child, as I'd previously thought.  Conventional psychology might have helped me with that alone, but it can't do anything about the fact I was born with a sensory wiring that terrifies me.  It cannot be fixed and it's becoming life threatening.

But in all other regards...yep! Of course.  Thinking and relating to people differently is not a mental illness, is not a disability and is not pathologically abnormal.  It just helps the world go round.