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Any ASD spectrum people think it's other people who are the problem?

LastHorizon

I feel worn out with the endless references to the difficulties people on my spectrum have without considering that it's perhaps neurotypical people who cause the difficulty.

Have you considered the same thing?

In discussions with my advisor, for example, difficulties are sometimes identified as my tendency to "take things litererally". I find it frustrating. If people expressed themselves both clearly and directly then their literal meaning would be the meaning intended. What's wrong with that?

Also, something which frustrates me greatly is other people who fail to take my own meaning literally. They appear to believe, incorrectly, that like them, I also mean something I didn't say. In discussions with my advisor, again, this difficulty is basically discussed as if it is my fault because I'm autistic.

In both cases it seems to me that if others expressed themselves more clearly, and were used to doing so, then neither of us would have such problems with communication.

Limitations experienced or caused by neurotypical people are not sufficiently acknowledged or recognised, they tend to be hidden or widely accepted simply because their faults are deemed socially normal.


What do others think?

Do you agree the difficulties you face on the ASD spectrum are often really as much to do with the limitations and difficulties caused by neurotypical people? 

Do you have experiences of difficulties you beleive you wouldn't have if neurotypical people developed some of the distinct advantages of being on the ASD spectrum?

Do you have stories or regular frustrations which make you think "If only..." the person you're speaking to, or example, would see things more literally, or something else?

Where do you think being neurotypical is a disadvantage over being ASD?

Also, like me, do you believe it is significant that such difficulties only occur in meetings with neurotypical people, and mysteriously vanish at all other times? Suggesting it's as much neurotypical who are the cause of producing the problem as anything we are the cause of ourselves?

Just generally what do you think are the frustration of ASD for which the neurotypicals basically really have only themselves to blame?

Parents

  • 100% identify and agree with OP.  Source of problem is social environment. 

    I think most people feel the need to gauge what others want to hear and deliver desired response out of fear of being rejected or disapproved.

    Or they need to gauge what is most advantageous for them to say at this particular moment because they really need a particular outcome and can t afford to speak their mind. fear of consequences. Manipulation as survival tactic.

    And all the other ugly NT Behaviors witnessed in schools and some workplaces. Bullying - better participate or you might be bullied yourself if you opt out. Backstabbing and disloyalty: you have to do whatever it takes to be safe. switch sides, lie, but don t risk being left out. 

    Essentially, fear based behaviors of needy and insecure people-sheeple.

    Deep rooted feeling of having safety in numbers. don't be left out, do what you need to belong, or you ll be dead in no time if you dare separating from the group. Ancient times dominate their minds, but it becomes our problem, because we are a minority.

    there is no physical danger in being your own person, but rituals remain. and it takes a degree of intelligence to see meaninglessness of those behaviours in modern times. more cerebral people see it straight away and can t fathom participating in pointless activities. others participate but realize what s happening and resent it.

    majority doesn t realize anything, just do what instinct tell them. automatic behaviour, like indoor cats and dogs that never been outside still perform digging motions on hard floors.  it s a serious business to them, but pointless and amusing to humans. And would be problematic if they expected us to participate. 

    80% of people ( 80/20 rule, indont claim to know the real  numbers ) can t think independently or be their own person.

    before learning about "AS" I thought there must be a real independent person hidden under that fake social crust. I thought they might come out of their shell when/if the person achieves some degree of personal growth. But none of that is my business and until then I just minimize interaction with those "not yet there" people, since they are of little interest, and select my own people as much as possible.

    individual people ( what is apparently called " on the spectrum") vs "people-ants" that only look like individuals but possess a collective mind instead of their own.

    Actually, ant-people aka NT are trying to move further apart from each other and break out of their collective mind. They look down on those who progressed less ( " backward cultures", " primitive societies")  but also pathologise those who are further in this separation (" asperger's disorder") 

    it must be convenient and reassuring to declare your own position on this scale as "healthy, normal and desirable" and declare everything on one side "backward" and everything on the other side "disorder". Only problem is: it is not science, it is dogma.

    and then AS is not a disorder but more of a blasphemy type "offense". Either we declare you "abnormal" and thus diminish but tolerate you... if you don't get diminished by a diagnostic label, you will be punished for non-compliance and difference. even if you are completely harmless. that is the path of "undiagnosed" people.

Reply

  • 100% identify and agree with OP.  Source of problem is social environment. 

    I think most people feel the need to gauge what others want to hear and deliver desired response out of fear of being rejected or disapproved.

    Or they need to gauge what is most advantageous for them to say at this particular moment because they really need a particular outcome and can t afford to speak their mind. fear of consequences. Manipulation as survival tactic.

    And all the other ugly NT Behaviors witnessed in schools and some workplaces. Bullying - better participate or you might be bullied yourself if you opt out. Backstabbing and disloyalty: you have to do whatever it takes to be safe. switch sides, lie, but don t risk being left out. 

    Essentially, fear based behaviors of needy and insecure people-sheeple.

    Deep rooted feeling of having safety in numbers. don't be left out, do what you need to belong, or you ll be dead in no time if you dare separating from the group. Ancient times dominate their minds, but it becomes our problem, because we are a minority.

    there is no physical danger in being your own person, but rituals remain. and it takes a degree of intelligence to see meaninglessness of those behaviours in modern times. more cerebral people see it straight away and can t fathom participating in pointless activities. others participate but realize what s happening and resent it.

    majority doesn t realize anything, just do what instinct tell them. automatic behaviour, like indoor cats and dogs that never been outside still perform digging motions on hard floors.  it s a serious business to them, but pointless and amusing to humans. And would be problematic if they expected us to participate. 

    80% of people ( 80/20 rule, indont claim to know the real  numbers ) can t think independently or be their own person.

    before learning about "AS" I thought there must be a real independent person hidden under that fake social crust. I thought they might come out of their shell when/if the person achieves some degree of personal growth. But none of that is my business and until then I just minimize interaction with those "not yet there" people, since they are of little interest, and select my own people as much as possible.

    individual people ( what is apparently called " on the spectrum") vs "people-ants" that only look like individuals but possess a collective mind instead of their own.

    Actually, ant-people aka NT are trying to move further apart from each other and break out of their collective mind. They look down on those who progressed less ( " backward cultures", " primitive societies")  but also pathologise those who are further in this separation (" asperger's disorder") 

    it must be convenient and reassuring to declare your own position on this scale as "healthy, normal and desirable" and declare everything on one side "backward" and everything on the other side "disorder". Only problem is: it is not science, it is dogma.

    and then AS is not a disorder but more of a blasphemy type "offense". Either we declare you "abnormal" and thus diminish but tolerate you... if you don't get diminished by a diagnostic label, you will be punished for non-compliance and difference. even if you are completely harmless. that is the path of "undiagnosed" people.

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