Apparently, the heads of various regional assemblies have expressed a shared desire for future independence from Westminster at some point. Is this truly a serious proposal or even a desirable one? And what would real independence actually look like?
The Scots manning Hadrians Wall and us Offa's *** and the Severn Crossing!
Hands off Offa's ***! <grin> For twenty years I lived just on the English side of the border, close to Monmouth. I used the Severn Crossing regularly during the nearly ten years I worked in Cardiff, and loved that bridge. The first time I used it I mistook the outfall of my own river (the Wye) as the Severn - and then I went up the bridge and say the power and beauty of Hafren. You can close the *** Second Crossing anytime!
It may end up with no choice, I think federalising would protect us from those who want to see devolution rolled back and all control exerted from Westminster. I think there really would be uproar then, The Scots manning Hadrians Wall and us Offa's *** and the Severn Crossing!
Political dynamics have changed much over the last generation, with some young people having different views on politics to their parents on a scale that wouldn’t have happened when I was young.
And for the better, as far as I can judge. One of the worst aspects of the GFA, to my mind, is the inability to take account of the rise of the Alliance party.
most people I know from here who travel to Europe, do so on an Irish passport
My friend has one, now, although neither she nor her husband travel to Europe.
Some goods from Britain are unavailable to us or more expensive because firms don’t want the extra cost in time and labour to send them here.
I know. It's really annoying, isn't it? Together with the premium charged by many companies on shipping to NI - if they will even ship at all. Twice, my friend has had to pay for goods to be sent to me, so I can send them to her.
I think everybody here would have known of your ex partner back then. Political dynamics have changed much over the last generation, with some young people having different views on politics to their parents on a scale that wouldn’t have happened when I was young. A lot of extremists today are even more into causing violence for violence sake than back then, and many are caught up with illegal money laundering and are loan sharks.
Brexit was responsible for reigniting some of the issues about a united Ireland but most people I know from here who travel to Europe, do so on an Irish passport, whether or not they are of a unionist persuasion.
Some goods from Britain are unavailable to us or more expensive because firms don’t want the extra cost in time and labour to send them here. That has annoyed all sides of the community and has encouraged some people who would have been unionist to be open to a united Ireland. On the other hand, we don’t have import duties on EU goods, and I source many goods down south at a much cheaper price, especially dog food and gardening products.
I think the only sensible thing to do is federalise
Agreed. I wish I could see Westminster doing that, but I can't.
I agree with Alexa, now isn't the time for Welsh independence, not only can we not afford it, but only about a third of people want it. I think a lot of the calls for independence are the fault of Westmister, I won't say England, because there's a few arts of England that feel just as left out and like they have things done to them as the devolved nations.
I could well see a situation where if Reform got into Westminster and not the devolved nations then there could be a massive split, bigger than Brexit.
I think the only sensible thing to do is federalise, if Burnam's serious about devolution for England, then I think if we don't then it will be a big mess. The consituent parts of England see the country of Britain very differently to each other, let alone the devolved nations. I think federalising would keep Great Britain as a nation on the international stage, we wouldn't have issues about the military, national security, currency, head of state etc, but we would be more able to set our own taxes, decide our own spending and priorities without it being such a massive big deal. We could even jointly develope some projects, like how to use waterways, power etc.
Many good people have worked extremely hard, under very difficult circumstances to bring about peace and the Good Friday Agreement.
indeed they have. The work that was done at the time was immense and courageous.
If the majority of NI citizens want a United Ireland, then the process can take place, and that is the only way it can come about for now.
Agreed. The 'issue' I had in mind was what reaction Trump's words may have on the extremists. I fear that the DUP hotheads may wish to express disagreement in unacceptable ways, which would cause a counter-reaction from the extremists on the other side.
I know I'm an outsider, but I've been visiting NI once to three times a year since my ex-partner was called to give evidence at the Bloody Sunday Inquiry in Derry, back in 2000. Virtually every lawyer in the room had a copy of his book about the Troubles. He showed me around the sites he'd frequented as a reporter at the beginning of the Troubles. My closest friend (the reason for the visits) is a non-partisan ex-Belfaster from the Protestant community, now living in East Antrim, while another long-time friend is from a Catholic family in Co Down. I hope that, as an outsider, it gives me an advantage many others here in Britain don't share, though I don't mistake that as equal to those who live in NI.
Northern Ireland is more complicated, as the Orange-oriented citizens are hostile toward southern Ireland and many moderate citizens would prefer to stay in the UK, even if they hate the exptremists. It wouldn't really be an issue in Norn Iron had not Trump stirred things up recently.
That is not an accurate reflection of the reality for most people in Northern Ireland. The topic has been to the forefront of people’s lips for a long time. Many good people have worked extremely hard, under very difficult circumstances to bring about peace and the Good Friday Agreement.
Trump’s words don’t and won’t change how things are in N. Ireland. Things will progress only in accordance with the Good Friday Agreement. If the majority of NI citizens want a United Ireland, then the process can take place, and that is the only way it can come about for now.
Is this truly a serious proposal or even a desirable one?
Desirable to England? Or to the citizens of the other countries?
The leader of Plaid Cymru isn't seeking indepence at the moment. Whether Scottish citizens are can only be tested by another independence vote - although after the last one, Westminster pulled the rug out from under a very pro-European Scotland through Brexit, which Scottish citizens did not vote for. That certainly galvinised many people towards independnece in order to rejoin the EU. The rise of REform has added to that, as Scotland is a great deal more inclusive than England.
Northern Ireland is more complicated, as the Orange-oriented citizens are hostile toward southern Ireland and many moderate citizens would prefer to stay in the UK, even if they hate the exptremists. It wouldn't really be an issue in Norn Iron had not Trump stirred things up recently.
I doubt Wales could cope with independence financially, which is probably why the leader of Plaid isn't advocating it at the moment. They would probably have to join teh EU if they became independent simply to survive. Scotland has historical strong ties with France, but there are issues around indepence in terms of currency, military bases and the oil and gas industry, that makes Westminster want to ensure it remains in English control. However, in the last few years they have been far too heavy-handed about that and used their power nakedly to overrule Scotland over at least one issue. Whatever people feel about that issue, such naked power-grabs only raise hackles in Scotland, and not just with the Scottish government. To make matters worse, the promises of added powers to Scotland made to ensure the last anti-indepence vote was jettisoned once England got its way. Many Scots now feel they are in an abusive relationship, which Westminster does not try to alleviate. Reform makes matters worse by insisting the native Scottish languages should be discouraged in favour of straight English, which conjours up all the old discriminations and oppression.
In addition to all the above, Westminster never consults the other countries about policy and makes most citizens in those countries feel ignored by the English. Any call for independence is Westminster's own fault.
