I was considering putting up a discussion post about "Ann Droid" (the BBC TV series) earlier today and my search on the site has suggested your thread as Marianne72 I agree Austin is great, The Detectorists, Ludwig and Small Prophets - likely stuff you've already been thro' but I thought that I'd mention them.
Happy viewing!
Phased
I gave Ann Droid a go and quite enjoyed it. It took me a couple of episodes to get into it but once I got used to the concept it was very enjoyable.
yes it is complicated Expecto_Patronum
shifting an "unknown unknown" into being a "known unknown" and then it becoming "known" is hard. In my personal case, perhaps for others, maybe in respect of the "double empathy problem" the struggle is about pretty profound misconceptions. Overturning the majority conception - even tho' it may be wrong - is something humanity as a whole seems to not find easy, so both you and I deserve to go easy on ourselves about it I think!
You make some great points about the actor thing.
I watched Shakespeare's "twelfth night" this summer - in it a woman character pretends to be a man. Initially, because of social restrictions, when it was performed it would have been a man pretending to be a woman pretending to be a man! Not so these days, women are allowed (well by a lot of human society anyway - maybe not enough yet...) - better equality perhaps. Another title for the play is "whatever you like" - maybe if there was true equality people would be able to act in whatever way they liked - personally I would exclude serial killers from that right too - hehe maybe I'm just not liberal enough - but one draws a line somewhere!
Your comment about by doing enough research a good actor may be able to play a broad range of characters might be a metaphor for the amount of effort an autistic person has to put into masking.
Yes I think that does make sense. Still blows my mind though. The brain is so complicated.
There are definitely times that a role needs to be played by a particular actor. If race is key to the role e.g. a film about slavery, then yes it should be played by an actor of that race. If it were a condition like downs syndrome then yes it makes sense the actor also had the condition as that is visual. I don't think it's a bad thing an autistic actor playing an autistic character, I just don't think it's essential. I also think that could cause a big problem with type casting and could also risk autistic actors only being hired for autistic characters. The same argument might be used against them that they don't have lived experience of being neurotypical. I think if you're a good actor then you're a good actor and as long as you've done your research you should be able to play a broad range of characters.
if the brain can attempt to fill those gaps with a mask, why can't it just do it
No I find it an interesting conversation. I find it fascinating that so many of us can mask to the degree we do. Masking isn't perfect by any means but isn't it weird that we don't have natural social skills in many ways, at least typically, but our brain manages to fill in at least some of the gaps. That comes at a great cost to us I know and masking doesn't necessarily give us the social skills neurotypical people have but it makes me wonder, if the brain can attempt to fill those gaps with a mask, why can't it just do it. Like I struggle with socialising but put me in a small professional meeting at work and I seem to have no issue communicating appropriately. How does that work? Blows my mind a little.
Yes I have made this argument before when autism portrayals have been debated. There has to be something that makes it interesting. Whether that be by it being funny, or emotional (in cases where the character is bullied etc) or because there is high drama. This might mean some of the traits are over exaggerated but they do that for many characters, not just autistic ones. The other thing I don't understand with people's criticism of autistic characters is they think they should only be played by autistic actors. Whilst I think it's important the actor has some understanding of autism to play the role, that is the entire point of acting. You wouldn't say that it had to be a gay person that played a gay character and you definitely wouldn't say you need a serial killer to play a serial killer so why does an autistic character need to be played by an autistic actor.
No I have issue with people's criticisms too. Don't get me wrong. I think there can be problematic stereotypes - all autistic people being like rain man for example. But I don't think these individual portrayals are necessarily problematic. Just when they all run a similar theme. There needs to be more variety which there is starting to be. The criticism that always baffles me is of Atypical. That show got a lot of hate. I thought it was a really good (and funny) portrayal of an autistic child and the family trying to manage his needs. One of the criticisms that confused me most was that him having a special interest was too stereotypical. His special interest was penguins which isn't very typical at all but you only need to take a look at this forum to see how many autistic people have a special interest. I saw no issue with him having this interest. And for characters like Sheldon in Big Bang (yes I know he is never stated to be autistic). Sometimes it is the over the topness that works. It makes it funny but relatable. How many of us sit in the same place. We might not make the fuss he does but it's common. I really related to an episode where he bought gifts of every price bracket just in case. Of course I don't do this in real life but the anxiety of how much to spend and what if I get it wrong is real.
I thought I had unmasked with someone I felt comfortable with once. But in reality I think I just created a new mask for them. I just don't know how to actually unmask and what is me being authentic. It's confusing.
Good call Expecto_Patronum - not sure why people take offence in respect of the "authentic" thing - it's TV drama after all not in depth scientific or clinical analysis. hmmm... just thought about the expression "why make a drama out of a crisis" - too many answers spring to mind, entertains and gets people thinking and talking about things like we're doing now and that's a good thing I think.
As regards the "not sure what the unmasked version is" bit - that's a deeper issue - for me it's a bit like Linda - but then I'm a bit like Astrid, Ludwig, Sherlock, half a dozen comedians I can think of etc. etc. in the bits where they "drop the act" that is... you come across "authentic" to me :-)
Fair enough. I don't think I know what the unmasked version of myself is.
I think perhaps it is also easier for a comedy to show this with a robot. No-one can criticise or question the presentation of a fictional robot. Whereas with autistic characters they tend to be very judged and questioned. People are either offended or don't think the character is authentic.
yes it is complicated Expecto_Patronum
shifting an "unknown unknown" into being a "known unknown" and then it becoming "known" is hard. In my personal case, perhaps for others, maybe in respect of the "double empathy problem" the struggle is about pretty profound misconceptions. Overturning the majority conception - even tho' it may be wrong - is something humanity as a whole seems to not find easy, so both you and I deserve to go easy on ourselves about it I think!
You make some great points about the actor thing.
I watched Shakespeare's "twelfth night" this summer - in it a woman character pretends to be a man. Initially, because of social restrictions, when it was performed it would have been a man pretending to be a woman pretending to be a man! Not so these days, women are allowed (well by a lot of human society anyway - maybe not enough yet...) - better equality perhaps. Another title for the play is "whatever you like" - maybe if there was true equality people would be able to act in whatever way they liked - personally I would exclude serial killers from that right too - hehe maybe I'm just not liberal enough - but one draws a line somewhere!
Your comment about by doing enough research a good actor may be able to play a broad range of characters might be a metaphor for the amount of effort an autistic person has to put into masking.
Yes I think that does make sense. Still blows my mind though. The brain is so complicated.
There are definitely times that a role needs to be played by a particular actor. If race is key to the role e.g. a film about slavery, then yes it should be played by an actor of that race. If it were a condition like downs syndrome then yes it makes sense the actor also had the condition as that is visual. I don't think it's a bad thing an autistic actor playing an autistic character, I just don't think it's essential. I also think that could cause a big problem with type casting and could also risk autistic actors only being hired for autistic characters. The same argument might be used against them that they don't have lived experience of being neurotypical. I think if you're a good actor then you're a good actor and as long as you've done your research you should be able to play a broad range of characters.
if the brain can attempt to fill those gaps with a mask, why can't it just do it
No I find it an interesting conversation. I find it fascinating that so many of us can mask to the degree we do. Masking isn't perfect by any means but isn't it weird that we don't have natural social skills in many ways, at least typically, but our brain manages to fill in at least some of the gaps. That comes at a great cost to us I know and masking doesn't necessarily give us the social skills neurotypical people have but it makes me wonder, if the brain can attempt to fill those gaps with a mask, why can't it just do it. Like I struggle with socialising but put me in a small professional meeting at work and I seem to have no issue communicating appropriately. How does that work? Blows my mind a little.
Yes I have made this argument before when autism portrayals have been debated. There has to be something that makes it interesting. Whether that be by it being funny, or emotional (in cases where the character is bullied etc) or because there is high drama. This might mean some of the traits are over exaggerated but they do that for many characters, not just autistic ones. The other thing I don't understand with people's criticism of autistic characters is they think they should only be played by autistic actors. Whilst I think it's important the actor has some understanding of autism to play the role, that is the entire point of acting. You wouldn't say that it had to be a gay person that played a gay character and you definitely wouldn't say you need a serial killer to play a serial killer so why does an autistic character need to be played by an autistic actor.
No I have issue with people's criticisms too. Don't get me wrong. I think there can be problematic stereotypes - all autistic people being like rain man for example. But I don't think these individual portrayals are necessarily problematic. Just when they all run a similar theme. There needs to be more variety which there is starting to be. The criticism that always baffles me is of Atypical. That show got a lot of hate. I thought it was a really good (and funny) portrayal of an autistic child and the family trying to manage his needs. One of the criticisms that confused me most was that him having a special interest was too stereotypical. His special interest was penguins which isn't very typical at all but you only need to take a look at this forum to see how many autistic people have a special interest. I saw no issue with him having this interest. And for characters like Sheldon in Big Bang (yes I know he is never stated to be autistic). Sometimes it is the over the topness that works. It makes it funny but relatable. How many of us sit in the same place. We might not make the fuss he does but it's common. I really related to an episode where he bought gifts of every price bracket just in case. Of course I don't do this in real life but the anxiety of how much to spend and what if I get it wrong is real.
I thought I had unmasked with someone I felt comfortable with once. But in reality I think I just created a new mask for them. I just don't know how to actually unmask and what is me being authentic. It's confusing.
Good call Expecto_Patronum - not sure why people take offence in respect of the "authentic" thing - it's TV drama after all not in depth scientific or clinical analysis. hmmm... just thought about the expression "why make a drama out of a crisis" - too many answers spring to mind, entertains and gets people thinking and talking about things like we're doing now and that's a good thing I think.
As regards the "not sure what the unmasked version is" bit - that's a deeper issue - for me it's a bit like Linda - but then I'm a bit like Astrid, Ludwig, Sherlock, half a dozen comedians I can think of etc. etc. in the bits where they "drop the act" that is... you come across "authentic" to me :-)
Fair enough. I don't think I know what the unmasked version of myself is.
I think perhaps it is also easier for a comedy to show this with a robot. No-one can criticise or question the presentation of a fictional robot. Whereas with autistic characters they tend to be very judged and questioned. People are either offended or don't think the character is authentic.
