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Toxic characters in fiction?

Jamesmac

Just finished The Amazing Digital Circus, and I felt the need to write this essay to process certain things about the ending, specifically about Jax. (SPOILER WARNING)

So, Jax is often portrayed as being mean and sarcastic to the other characters, but we learn later on that it's because he's afraid of them getting close to him and knowing the real him, but the lengths he goes to push them away often seem... excessive, in my opinion. Even after Pomni learns who he really is, he's still mean and hostile towards her despite the affection she shows towards him.

Let's compare him to Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty, for example; Both are afraid of people getting close to them incase they get hurt, so both of them act mean or cruel to push them away. Both of them also have a nihilistic world view. However, one big difference between the two; Rick has two moods; 1. I hate you, you're stupid and nothing matters, and 2. Nothing matters, but you still matter to me regardless. Meanwhile, Jax's two moods are; 1. I hate you, you're stupid and nothing matters, and 2. I hate you, don't touch me.

And there in lies the problem with Jax, in my opinion. Usually the whole "person who acts mean to push people away" trope has said mean person actually be a nice person on the inside, but with Jax, he's not a nice person on the inside, he's just a mean person who happens to also be sensitive, which is arguably worse and makes him far less endearing than Rick.

Anyway, I've gotten all that out of my system, anyone else got any other examples?

  • in reply to Cinnabar_wing

    I couldn't get on with the Wheel of Time books, I think I read about half of one before giving up.

    Boromir in LotR, he was a big headed numpty who thought to much of himself, I cheered when he was killed in the films, even more so because he was played by Sean Bean, an actor who seems to have problems not playing Sean Bean

  • in reply to Cinnabar_wing

    The funny thing about the Zeta Gundam example though is that the original Gundam and Zeta's followup, Gundam ZZ, actually had a lot of strong female characters and fairly non-sexist writing despite it being the same writer

  • in reply to Jamesmac

    Yeah, I think sometimes the stories that they tell reveal something about the creators mindset. 

    I was enjoying another book by Dan Simmons, and then he threw in a r*** fantasy and it completely put me off the author. He had it that a futuristic people left technology behind for a certain character to find, and the only way to unlock it was having s** with an unconscious women to 'wake her from stasis'. He had his character morally torn, but ultimately did it for 'humanity'. It was completely unnecessary in an otherwise good sci fi book with good female characters. That is the author just being perverse and I've lost all respect for him.

  • Of course, another classic example is Mr. Burns from The Simpsons, especially to Mr. Smithers lol.

    Even after getting stung by a bee on a bike ride (Smithers is allergic to bees), rather than taking over to get him to a hospital, he berates him to pedal faster to get to a hospital himself. Hilarious moment in one of the funniest episodes, honestly

  • in reply to DavidA

    Honestly, if you can REALLY hate a character that much, it definitely means the actor playing them is doing a good job!

  • in reply to Cinnabar_wing

    Your example kinda reminds of Kamille from Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam.

    He's very much internalised a toxicly masculine mindset thanks to a complex he has about his feminine name. He constantly picks fights with every male crew member of the Argama and simps for every female character he comes across. Doesn't help that Yoshiyuki Tomino, the creator of the Gundam franchise, is quite infamously sexist

  • in reply to KinksFan

    LMAO his toxicity is actually one of the funniest things about those movies, tbh

  • Kai Winn in Deep Space Nine. She's so condescending, thinks she knows better than anyone else, tries to impose her religious dogma on everyone, and has a wildly inflated ego. And unlike other villains, she has no charm, she is just unlikeable. I hate her so much and that's why I love seeing her on my screen, Louise Fletcher did such a good job playing her.

  • Thomas Covenant in the books about him, ungrateful sh1tbag, if I had leprosy and was transported to a world where not only did I not have it, but had the power he had, I'd be happy.

  • in reply to TheCatWoman

    Let us know what you are watching,  . I'm interested and others will be as well!

  • Cugel the Clever in Jack Vance's books 'The Eyes of the Overworld' and 'Cugel's Saga'. The books are set in the 'Dying Earth' milieu, where magic is very real - Dungeons and Dragons took Vance's mechanisms for way that that spells function and some of his actual spells, such as prismatic spray, and IOUN stones. Cugel is supremely selfish and amoral, while he evokes sympathy because of his sufferings at the hands of others, he then inevitably does something vile that  loses that sympathy. He is jeered at by a humanoid seashell creature on a beach, Cugel then stabs the creature with his sword in a fit of pique, the creature cries out, "You have robbed me of my one and only life!", before it dies.

  • Dr. Evil from the Austin Powers series, especially the way that he is towards his son, Scott.

  • in reply to TheCatWoman

    I think Jamesmac is inviting that discussion! 

    I've been trying to think, as I know I've had that feeling but couldn't remember off hand. 

    One I really disliked is the main character Rand from Wheel of Time books. He's a pig headed sexist who's suspicious of any woman with any power or control, and the author has all the female characters fauning over him, and he just whines about how no one could understand him and has to play mind games with all those who are trying to help him. I got so annoyed I stopped reading the books. 

  • Oh thats a shame, this is all about programes and stories I've never seen and never will, I was looking forward to discussing the topics raised in this thread.