I should be proud because....

(I think your thoughts were about sport, but I felt the urge to systemise. This is a comment about "pride" and its opposite "shame".)

Consider different types of pride:

• Group Pride: A) Gay pride, black pride, minority pride; B) Parents pride for their children, or friends..; C) Football team or sports pride, D) Nationalism (and townalism and so forth.), E) Certain religious factions, even ethnicities (even supremacists and such)
• Individual Pride: A) CatWoman's pride for English Renaissance, B) other's pride for other things, C) Achievement / Winning a competence or money.

In both is an underlying comparison, or contrast being made: versus other groups, or versus a previous state, and so forth.

"Group Pride":  seems about ingroups vs outgroups. I would say these elements are relevant:

1. An individual identifies with a group (the ingroup: nation, football team, religion, historical period etc.) in contrast to another.
2. Further with the fate of the group
   1. Possibly derived from the survival of a group (a modern concept built on top of a survival instinct).
   2. If they win, the pride grows; If they lose, the opposite grows, which is shame.

They may still feel pride when "our team" loses, but not as much as when it wins. It may be mixed with shame as well.

In the case of "minority pride" it may be more about hard-earned rights, but still a sense of oppressed-oppressor which can be within the category of ingroup / outgroup.

• So should we feel group pride about sports? Only if you decide to identify with the group, and the success of it.

Individual Pride: for doing the right thing, or a sense of achievement. (Versus less virtuous or shameful actions.)

• Should we feel shame at hurting someone? And certain pride at helping someone? I think it makes sense. Even if it is not exactly the pride described above, but rather a sense of doing the right thing or trying to.

--------

Pride and shame may also be important in educating children, and how they acquire values (moral and otherwise) e.g. the book "The Emotion Machine" Chapter 1 or 2.

I didn't say I was proud of our part in the renasaince, I said I find it interesting, theres a huge difference.

For me it's not about in or out groups, I'm not part of any group, nor do I feel the need to be and resist attempts to make me part of a group, I know it's not good for me as there will be some kind of group think, that I won't agree with, or will find stiffling in some way.

Like i said previously I've never really had a sense of achievement, I wasn't brought up to be pleased or proud of anything I'd done, there were things I'd done wrong and anything I done right was passed over as only what was expected. There were no rewards for doing things well or right, only punishments for doing it wrong

TheCatWoman said:

I didn't say I was proud of our part in the renasaince, I said I find it interesting, theres a huge difference.

My bad. I skimmed too quickly and misread the comment. I agree these are very different.

TheCatWoman said:

I didn't say I was proud of our part in the renasaince, I said I find it interesting, theres a huge difference.

My bad. I skimmed too quickly and misread the comment. I agree these are very different.