I have just listened to the awful results of the Southport enquiry which overtly mentions the fact that sadly the killer was diagnosed with autism. As soon as this was mentioned my heart sank. I really hope that this doesn't lead to a narrow negative view of neurodivergent individuals being feared as violent : (
I just wanted to seek some comfort from the community because its really upset me.
It sounds like Autism is being used as an excuse for inaction by various and multiple agencies. I think autism was probably the least of this offenders problems.
I too think NAS should get up on it's hind legs and make a fuss about this sort of reporting as well as the consequences of agencies deciding autism means they can't intervene or that their interventions should be minimal.
I get where you are coming from because it doesn't get reported, in other cases, that the culprit is neurotypical, because, presumably it isn't relevant. In this case, autism was deemed relevant because, according to the results of the enquiry:
"Agencies regularly simply used autism as an explanation, or even an excuse, for his conduct including his violence. Strategies and interventions were needed in order to address the risk he posed and the causes of it.
“But instead, as a result of a significant lack of understanding, the problem was left both unmanaged and underestimated.”
The problem is how this is reported and how people with an agenda (let's face it - the same sort of people who will blame his race, or the fact that his parents are immigrants) will spin it. There is a huge lack of understanding of autism generally so many people will make entirely wrong assumptions in such cases. As someone else said, it's important that the NAS speaks up to try and educate people about this.
not opt for "care in the community
I said that at the very beginning when I worked in a CMHT, when the Care in the Community was being rolled out. The big problem was, as usual, lack of funding, lack of staff, lack of direction and very little research. No one wants responsibility. Isn't this always the case across so many situations we read in the news.
Happy to say, and hope this comforts you, that Inquiry results were examined in detail on Channel 4 news. There was no 'blaming' of autism, but of failures by all the agencies and the perpetrator's parents, for passing the buck. All we need now is Parliament to make the necessary legal changes.
I agree Marianne, I'd hate to see ND people put at even more of a disadvantage than we are already. From what I read of the case at the time and now from this inquiry, isn't so much that his autism was a cause, but that so many agenicies failed. Although that being said, agencies get set up with a purpose, like Prevent, which focus's on deradicalising people who are being influenced by terrorist ideology, they're not set up to help those with no idealogy, but are dangerously violent or potentially violent.
Personally I think we need a serious rethink about whether we hospitalise some with serious mental health conditions and not opt for "care in the community" which is something we've seen fail time and again. It's not just those who are a harm to others, but those who are more of a danger to themselves, which many seem to be, nobody seems to take the families of mental health patients seriously enough either, they often know the person far better than the professionals. I talso can't be right that GP's have so little power to section someone, they can try and ask someone to attend a mental health clinic, but can't make them, despite knowing that they're highly likely to harm themselves or someone else.
This is a horrible case, where so many people were failed by to many systems.
I’m sorry, that is concerning on multiple levels. There have been a number of cases in the media of autistic people committing crime (I’ve often noticed school shooters in America being reported as autistic for example). It’s important to remind people that the vast majority of crimes are committed by people who are not autistic. However we can’t control the conclusions that other people come to when they hear a story like this - that’s simply the reality. Try to reassure yourself that most people will not come to the ridiculous conclusion that all autistic people are dangerous - but for the tiny minority of people who do think that there’s nothing you can do about that. There will always be a few ignorant people in this world sadly. And soon the story in the news will move on, and people will stop thinking about it.
You will notice that it says neurodiverse and not autism specifically.
that paper is referring to neurodiverse conditions as a whole, not autism specifically. (And infact points out that only 9% are autistic - which supports more closely Stuarts comment) That category includes things like ADHD, learning disability, and mental health conditions, which have very different associations with offending.
It does say “are “targets for bullying, manipulation, and sexual abuse”
The broader evidence base (including systematic reviews and UK Parliament evidence) consistently shows that autistic people are not more likely to offend, and in many cases have lower rates than the general population.
So it’s not accurate to use a general ‘neurodiverse’ statistic to imply anything about autism specifically.”
Autistic people are likely to be victims or witnesses more often than offenders….
It's the press reporting it wrongly, not the Inquiry. But NAS need to do something about this. Rumours spread far too easily in social media and people love a scapegoat and a 'cause'. The whole thing about such cases is upsetting, because time and again the facts have been known for years, yet nothing has been done to improve trace systems and flag up potentially dangerous individuals. Don't be upset - it's not a slur on the whole community, but a careless reporter making assumptions and writing badly. The really blameworthy are those who set up the recording and reporting systems in the NHS.
90-95% of people in prison don't have autism.
The truth seems quite different:
From The Journal of Clinical & Medical Images - Case Reports document called:
Autism in prison: Perspective on the current scenario:
https://jcmimagescasereports.org/article/JCM-V5-1783.pdf
Around fifty percent of people in prison have a neurodiverse condition.
I asked a detective I was working with once about this and he said that a lot of it is because neudivergent people are more prone to being led on by those with bad intentions - in essence we are often gullible and too trusting.
The system does not always take into account what the causes of our gullibility are, just that the crime was committed, the person admits it and it is a good crime closure statistic for the police so they are willing to let it stick.
I can understand why you are so upset about it.
I think the biggest point here should be the failure of the system though. One of the problems is a lot of services hear you are autistic and say they can't help, and that's it, they don't want to know and people don't know where to turn to for help. Then the system has failed, and things can go very wrong.
An autism diagnosis shouldn't mean getting ignored, so tragedies don't occur, and people get the help they need. Maybe it can galvanise better understanding, and better more complete services, so out of the horribleness, something can grow to help people.
Hi, I'm sorry that this has upset you and I understand why.
Most serial killers are men, but we don't view all men as likely to be violent.
Here is an article I found which might be of help:
Try not to worry about it, it's just sensationalism and will be soon forgotten as the public scroll through social meeja looking at what others had for dinner.
90-95% of people in prison don't have autism. So plenty of non-autistic people cause trouble. No one wants to lock all them up.
While autism may make you prone to certain things, there are many other factors at play.
I wouldn't worry.
Autistic people are more a risk to themselves than to others.
I don’t think so , if you read the listed key failings - as quoted in the BBC new today: “
which means previously they had thought his behaviours were linked to his autism but clearly it’s something else and was wrongly linked to that
