*** Burning

I find it interesting to note that in the bible, god killed untold multitudes of people (including babies and children). Usually though extremely unpleasant methods like drowning, burning and plague.

Satan killed around 10.

I don't know where the morality is.

I usually avoid posting about religion- but I just don't understand the logic of divorce being worse than murder. Market research being worse than murder. stability deprivision being worse than murder.

Desmond, I'm sorry but I don't get it.

One interesting thing that I like to think about is that the Antichrist is reckoned to precede the end times. If we are approaching the end times, I wonder if people look to the newly elected leader of the free world, who wouldn't know how to live by one of Jesus's principles if it hit them in the face, and think... "hang on... wait a minute.. maybe, just maybe I have go this all wrong?!"

Infodump from a special interest I phased through about 30 years ago…

The original Christians were what is now described as gnostics. They believed that the god of the Old Testament (who liked all the murder and cruelty) was in fact a fake god (the demiurge) who had trapped our divine souls in a corrupt physical realm.

The real god then sent Jesus to provide us with the knowledge (gnosis) to free our souls from this prison.

It was the Romans who later very much changed the nature of Christianity to what we see now.

I’m very much an atheist but the beliefs of the early Christians seem more sensible and consistent than those they were replaced with.

<infodump ends>

The early Christians were a VERY broad "church" consisting  of many differing theologies.  Paul  -v- James was the main battle of theology (from what i can gather) but i do agree that Gnostic theologies (difficult to define) also abounded.  It was a fascinating and  messy time.

History is generally  'established' by the victors, for good or ill.  This is why the Nag Hammadi library and the Dead Sea Scrolls are so fascinating = sets of "history" written/stashed by some of the loosers....for us to find just 80 years ago.

I still find this period of recent human history fascinating...... and like you....I don't feel a need to "pound a personal narrative."  It's just interesting.  Unfortunately, it is virtually impossible to discuss these topics.....everyone is so utterly polarised these days.

I'm enjoying this thread, the input and the discussion  - thanks :-)  Everyone is so polarised? - maybe not   :-)

I've often wondered about that too, Martin, along with other questions like how things would be different if Harold Godwinson had won the Battle of Hastings, what if Boudicca had managed to kick the Romans out, what if Hannibal had beaten the Romans?

I think Oswiu's descision was largely political, to quote Lucilla from Gladiator, 'Once there was an idea that was Rome', I think this idea cast a very long shadow, nearly all the rest of western Europe was part of the Roman Church and of course there would of still been lots of Roman structures, artifacts and of course roads. I think Oswiu wanted to be part of a larger Europe rather than an insular one, trade with Europe was a big thing then as it is now. Another what if, is if we'd not have had Edward the Confessor rather than another decendent of Cnut would we have turned our political attention south rather north towards Scandinavia?

I've often wondered about that too, Martin, along with other questions like how things would be different if Harold Godwinson had won the Battle of Hastings, what if Boudicca had managed to kick the Romans out, what if Hannibal had beaten the Romans?

I think Oswiu's descision was largely political, to quote Lucilla from Gladiator, 'Once there was an idea that was Rome', I think this idea cast a very long shadow, nearly all the rest of western Europe was part of the Roman Church and of course there would of still been lots of Roman structures, artifacts and of course roads. I think Oswiu wanted to be part of a larger Europe rather than an insular one, trade with Europe was a big thing then as it is now. Another what if, is if we'd not have had Edward the Confessor rather than another decendent of Cnut would we have turned our political attention south rather north towards Scandinavia?