What are your thoughts about romance? I think that romance is like communication - it's a two-way street. Autistic people get blamed for ‘hindering’ or ‘damaging’, but there is such a thing as a double empathy problem.
I've posted a short video about romance on my YouTube channel - or rather, it's my response to someone else's video about romance and autism.
What are your thoughts about romance?
It is largely a societal construct where the rules evolve over time and knowing what the other party to the relationship is wanting is incredibly hard.
I find it much more effective to be polite, kind and thoughtful and have a range of gestures to call on, eg:
When you go to visit them, always take a small gift, even if it is something small like fresh fruit, flowers they may have mentioned they like or their favourite snack. Listening to them and making notes on their favourite author / artist / actor helps here.
Make an effort to remember things that are important to them. Use your mobile phones calendar and note taking function to do this when out of their presence so it seems less mechanical to them - the mystique is an important part for many NTs
Ask how they are and how they feel - but not too often. This one is hard to judge but observing when their behaviour changes can be important.
Offer praise for the little things - how they dressed if they look a bit different to normal, if they have changed their hair or have a new accessory - tell them it looks great, suits them, that they have good taste etc. Keep it simple and sincere. It relies on you paying attention to them.
Overall much of this relies on us stopping being so self centered (a very common autistic trait) and focussing on the partner, paying attention and remembering the small stuff.
Overall much of this relies on us stopping being so self centered (a very common autistic trait)
Could you substantiate this statement with some evidence please?
My experience is often the opposite, both of myself, the autistic people I know personally, and from reading this forum.
It will of course vary from person to person depending on their personality, irrespective of whether they are autistic or allistic.
My experience is often the opposite, both of myself, the autistic people I know personally, and from reading this forum.
I use the same base of the posts on this forum and my rational for the conclusion comes from the sheer number of posts which have common elements such as:
- difficulty in maintaining friendships or even relationships as they find it too hard to deal with the other peoples expectations
- need for lots of "me time" away from others in order to decompress and recharge
- lack of understanding of social rules then when a book is suggested that explains all this then they cannot be bothered to read it or don't want to try the techniques suggested.
- dislike of other people making noises, speaking to them or often generally existing.
- many who have a strong moral compass are intolerant of the more liberal opinions or behaviours of others.
etc
We focus on what we need, feel, want etc rather than others.
These all stem from their autistic traits and it makes us more self centered (not necessarily selfish - a big difference) than neurotypicals on average.
I guess we see life through very different lenses if you see the above and see people being other people centered (the opposite of self centered).
I guess it depends on the book Iain, but when I made that comment about it depedning on your culture, I was thinking of a dating website from some years ago, that was very successful in America, but when it was launched here was an almost total flop, because the questions it asked and the ranking the user gave them were totally different here to the USA, they had to recalibrate their algorhythms and change some of their questions for the UK. If I'd have believed my original thingy from the site I would of been undateable, I spoke to a few other people who'd tried the site and they said the same things.
I don't think I push help away, but being an intelligent and resourseful person I do as much for myself as I can think of, I will research thing and try things out, I tend only to ask for help when I've reached the end of my resourses, unfortuantely the end of my resourses are often ahead of those who try to help, like the pain clinic saying that I could teach them stuff, they couldn't help me, but they admired my resoursefulness. It's really frustrating for me and for those I ask to help, it sounds as though I'm playing the "yes but" game, but I really have tried the things they're suggesting. Then there's the people who don't listen, like physiotherapists, who tell me I've got brilliant strength and flexibility and act like I'm wasting thier time when actually I've gone to see them because of hyperflexibility.
Also why should we not be afraid?
My view on this is that fear creates a prison and leaves you trapped inside.
If you learn to understand that fear, find ways to come to terms with it and find a way to deal with it then you will forever be in its icy clutches.
I have a habit of facing some of these fears head on - face them down and see what is the worst they can really do to me so I can steal their power and live free of them.
It is not something I would suggest others do on the whole but I find it tremendously effective.
If you choose to accept your prison then that is also a valid choice.
If the social rules you've read about in a book are not the ones demonstrated by those around you, then it will cause confusion, how could it not?
If you are reading about social rules then you can almost guarantee that there will be a disclaimer early in the book pointing out that society changes from place to place (rural Wales is way different to Chelsea for example) and you need to apply some common sense in working out if the rules apply in those situations.
The basic rules are pretty universal in Western cultures for exampe so most will apply.
I've had lots of things explained to me in black and white and they're still as clear as mud to me,
If you don't understand the rules yourself then it seems a bit odd to be challenging my suggestion that others who can understand them may benefit from them.
You say youself that you often just need things explained differently sometimes. The issue I have is in the past where I have tried to explain things then you had a go at me for mansplaining or trying to help when you didn't want it.
Could it be you are pushing away those who are trying to help, thus making it harder to receive such help? A sincere question.
Someone else mentioned politics.
Iain, you and I think very differently about many things, I have to agree with you that the example I gave is autistic thinking, but not all of us see things in straight black and white the way you seem to. Social rules rarely make sense when looked at objectively, why do we shut the door when we go to the toilet? We all know what we go there to do, but we pretend to be blind to it, most of the time, lol. I think if you're just following rules without understanding them you come across as inauthentic and people notice that and it makes them wary, they wonder what you're hiding? Also social rules vary from place to place and with class and other subtlties of how we pigeon hole ourselves. I've had lots of things explained to me in black and white and they're still as clear as mud to me, I don't understand somethings it dosen't matter how many different ways or times they're explained I just don't get it, other times I just need it explained differerently.
Also why should we not be afraid? If we've been knocked back many times, often cruelly, then what we've learnt is that these situations are in some way dangerous, they cause hurt, people avoid things that hurt. If the social rules you've read about in a book are not the ones demonstrated by those around you, then it will cause confusion, how could it not?
In terms of romance, it's always been something thats given me the ick, right sinse I was a small child.
Someone else mentioned politics.
Iain, you and I think very differently about many things, I have to agree with you that the example I gave is autistic thinking, but not all of us see things in straight black and white the way you seem to. Social rules rarely make sense when looked at objectively, why do we shut the door when we go to the toilet? We all know what we go there to do, but we pretend to be blind to it, most of the time, lol. I think if you're just following rules without understanding them you come across as inauthentic and people notice that and it makes them wary, they wonder what you're hiding? Also social rules vary from place to place and with class and other subtlties of how we pigeon hole ourselves. I've had lots of things explained to me in black and white and they're still as clear as mud to me, I don't understand somethings it dosen't matter how many different ways or times they're explained I just don't get it, other times I just need it explained differerently.
Also why should we not be afraid? If we've been knocked back many times, often cruelly, then what we've learnt is that these situations are in some way dangerous, they cause hurt, people avoid things that hurt. If the social rules you've read about in a book are not the ones demonstrated by those around you, then it will cause confusion, how could it not?
In terms of romance, it's always been something thats given me the ick, right sinse I was a small child.
I guess it depends on the book Iain, but when I made that comment about it depedning on your culture, I was thinking of a dating website from some years ago, that was very successful in America, but when it was launched here was an almost total flop, because the questions it asked and the ranking the user gave them were totally different here to the USA, they had to recalibrate their algorhythms and change some of their questions for the UK. If I'd have believed my original thingy from the site I would of been undateable, I spoke to a few other people who'd tried the site and they said the same things.
I don't think I push help away, but being an intelligent and resourseful person I do as much for myself as I can think of, I will research thing and try things out, I tend only to ask for help when I've reached the end of my resourses, unfortuantely the end of my resourses are often ahead of those who try to help, like the pain clinic saying that I could teach them stuff, they couldn't help me, but they admired my resoursefulness. It's really frustrating for me and for those I ask to help, it sounds as though I'm playing the "yes but" game, but I really have tried the things they're suggesting. Then there's the people who don't listen, like physiotherapists, who tell me I've got brilliant strength and flexibility and act like I'm wasting thier time when actually I've gone to see them because of hyperflexibility.
Also why should we not be afraid?
My view on this is that fear creates a prison and leaves you trapped inside.
If you learn to understand that fear, find ways to come to terms with it and find a way to deal with it then you will forever be in its icy clutches.
I have a habit of facing some of these fears head on - face them down and see what is the worst they can really do to me so I can steal their power and live free of them.
It is not something I would suggest others do on the whole but I find it tremendously effective.
If you choose to accept your prison then that is also a valid choice.
If the social rules you've read about in a book are not the ones demonstrated by those around you, then it will cause confusion, how could it not?
If you are reading about social rules then you can almost guarantee that there will be a disclaimer early in the book pointing out that society changes from place to place (rural Wales is way different to Chelsea for example) and you need to apply some common sense in working out if the rules apply in those situations.
The basic rules are pretty universal in Western cultures for exampe so most will apply.
I've had lots of things explained to me in black and white and they're still as clear as mud to me,
If you don't understand the rules yourself then it seems a bit odd to be challenging my suggestion that others who can understand them may benefit from them.
You say youself that you often just need things explained differently sometimes. The issue I have is in the past where I have tried to explain things then you had a go at me for mansplaining or trying to help when you didn't want it.
Could it be you are pushing away those who are trying to help, thus making it harder to receive such help? A sincere question.
