Lowering voting age

Pixiefox said:

I also think that Labour are doing this not as an inclusive thing, but because they think that more young people vote Labour and more old people vote Tory.

Not so much. In fact the demographic group most likely to vote Labour are 30-40 year olds. Teenagers are less likely to vote at all! 

It's not about that, it's about turnout, which in turn is about greater democracy. The younger a person is when they first vote, the more engaged they're likely to be with the political landscape- and the more likely they are to keep voting through their lives. 

I think that's no bad thing, considering how apathetic the English tend to be when it comes to politics.

Pixiefox said:

I also think that Labour are doing this not as an inclusive thing, but because they think that more young people vote Labour and more old people vote Tory.

Not so much. In fact the demographic group most likely to vote Labour are 30-40 year olds. Teenagers are less likely to vote at all! 

It's not about that, it's about turnout, which in turn is about greater democracy. The younger a person is when they first vote, the more engaged they're likely to be with the political landscape- and the more likely they are to keep voting through their lives. 

I think that's no bad thing, considering how apathetic the English tend to be when it comes to politics.

I'd love to see PR, FPTP is a rubbish system that leaves so many disenfranchised, I think I've only ever felt my vote meant something once the 44 years I've been able to vote. All my life I've had governments I never voted for, councis I rarely voted for. If you vote for a party that isn't Labour or Tory then you get told it's a wasted vote, but you also get told you must vote for someone and that people died for me to be able to vote. you get told voting for anyone other than the two main parties is mearly a protest, but how do you change anything if you're not really free to choose? I've often been so disgusted at the main parties, I've voted Monster Raving Loony or I've spoiled my ballot paper, that has upset people, like the ex who marched me to the poling station and the canvasser that came to the door, they decided there was no hope for me, I thought good, because I have no hope for your parties either.

I like the idea of governing ourselves, but like Pixie I don't see how it would work, I also wonder how it wouldn't end up being run by different gangs and warlords? Humans are tribal and like to belong to groups larger than themselves, many don't like not being told what to do. Even among the educated there are people who are surprisingly uninformed about the wider world and the opposite, people with little formal education who are widely informed and engaged.

That people can leave school without the ability to read is shameful, the school system is seriously failing special needs children, as I'm sure many commentators on here know already, that should not stop people from voting, however as they can get their information in verba form as I'm sure many people who are blind or partially sighted already do.

Can you explain what the traditional values you wish to return to are?