Kazuo Ishiguro

I haven't read that, I like being an unofficial member of the unofficial NAS Kazuo Ishiguro fanclub though  I also like Marianne72  description 'understated and elegiac' which I agree with and didn't even know it, thank you    

Welcome to the unofficial NAS Kazuo Ishiguro fanclub

I would like to ask, has anyone else read 'The Unconsoled'? That is, without a doubt, the strangest one of his novels - he crosses over into surreal, almost Murakami-like territory in that one. There were also some surreal episodes in 'When We Were Orphans', but 'The Unconsoled' is non-stop weirdness all the way through. I don't think I like it as much as the other novels. It is very frustrating to read, but this is intentional - it's like one of those dreams where you are trying to get somewhere or accomplish something but just cannot get past all the obstacles.

I love Ishiguro's books because they are understated but elegiac. I'm gradually acquiring all his books.

I love the librarian poem! Thanks for sharing I had never heard of Henry Normal either, you are introducing me to several new writers.

Yes, lots of youngsters use the library as a safe space and it feels great to provide that for them. I am lucky to work in a school with management that values and continues to fund the library - as you are probably aware, there is no obligation for schools to have libraries and it's completely up to the whim of the Head. 

Backgammon is fun too

I like reading poems and reciting them out loud sometimes but haven't got into writing them myself. Synchronistically, a poem I particularly like is this one by Henry Normal https://henrynormal.com/

I went along to see him live again last month and he did this one too as is popular generally

The Olivia Laing books are definitely high quality and relatable enough (as opposed to too high brow etc) to me too. I hope you and some of the students find them interesting and helpful 

At school I hung around the school library quite a lot e.g. in break times as it was a more peaceful (+ safer) place to be 

I've got into playing Backgammon in recent years (online mainly so far, for fun / social and not using real money) partly as it is good exercise for using numbers instead of words / language for a change 

I had never heard of Olivia Laing and, having looked up their books, they really sound like something I might enjoy too - especially 'The Lonely City'; so I have ordered this one through the county library service. I am trying to come to terms with loneliness myself and I look forward to reading about loneliness, art and New York. Thanks, good recommendation :D

I work in a school library, in a big comprehensive school with a sixth form - we have around 12000 books, adult fiction and non-fiction as well as junior fiction, comic books, manga, etc. It's also used as a social space by students for playing chess, Dungeons & Dragons, etc. It's great! But I am certainly no Philip Larkin.

How about you?

He is a great actor! I didn't know he was on the autistic spectrum.

My mother wanted to be a librarian (she and my father both had 'attention to detail' in common as she became a primary school teacher with a particular interest in English (spelling, grammar, punctuation etc) and my father was a senior accountant all his career overall) and was involved at the school libraries she worked at as a teacher at the same time. I respect libraries and have used them a lot, what's your library like? The poet Philip Larkin was a librarian his whole career while writing his poetry on the side, I especially like his poem 'This Be The Verse' which I can relate to a lot.

Maybe_Sally said:

Am I understanding you correctly?

Yes, you get the idea. Thank you for the recommendations, I'll look out for them. I treated myself to 3 Olivia Laing books in the last year, The Trip to Echo Spring and The Lonely City I've read and am pleased I did and To The River I look forward to reading in time 

I definitely recommend that one, I watched it in a cinema (at a quiet time of day as usual) when it came out in 2022 and am very glad I did. The film makes me think of my father a lot as his life experience was parallel to Mr Williams e.g. my dad started off his lifelong career in the Civil Service (Ministry of Defence) by working at The Admiralty in London in the 1960s. He 'did his duty' (was very distant / robotic, like Mr Williams), retired at a young age (financially secure with potentially decades ahead of him) then got diagnosed with cancer and died 6 months later aged 60 on 24/09/2001.

The actor who played dutiful Stevens, Anthony Hopkins. was diagnosed in late life with autism. So possibly casting him as the clumsy Bezukov in the BBC drsma of War and Peace was an intuitive move. Notwithstanding he did a great and memorable job with Hannibal Lector.

Alas I havn't read Remsians of tje Day but Ive seen excerpts from the movie about him. 

I just looked up the film 'Living' that you mentioned and it sounds really good, I will definitely seek that one out!

That sounds like a wonderful use for AI as well, it really is helpful sometimes :)

That's really interesting, the connection you have made between being 'in service' and autism. I think I see what you mean. The idea of following instructions and a routine, working towards a 'greater good' without having to come up with one's own path in life. Am I understanding you correctly? That does seem reassuring, if there was an authority to follow that could fully be trusted, unlike the one in which poor Stevens placed his faith. If you are interested in other novels with benevolent AI, I must recommend 'Machines Like Me' by Ian McEwan. It's a good companion to 'Klara and the Sun' because McEwan has similarly made his artificial character 'good' in a way that the human characters are not. Also, the best unreliable narrator I have ever read was in 'We Have Always Lived in the Castle' by Shirley Jackson. It's told from the POV of an 18 year old girl who lives a reclusive life with her older sister and one of them may or may not have killed the rest of the family by poisoning. It's obviously dark, but not gruesome or straying into horror - in fact, you might like the way of life the sisters have built together which follows a calm routine with elements of superstition and family eccentricity. It's quite appealing - murder aside! Apologies if you don't want book recommendations, I'm a librarian and it's hard to resist sometimes! Do you have any for me? Which are your other favourite Ishiguros? I would say 'The Buried Giant' does have an unreliable narrator but more because he can't remember things rather than self-deception or trying to deceive the reader.

I'm glad you like it all, if there was an official Kazuo Ishiguro fanclub, I'd join it. I haven't read The Buried Giant, is that written in the 'unreliable narrator' form too? I was unaware of the unreliable narrator technique until after I'd read Klara and the Sun and was confused as Klara seemed an unreliable narrator to me. I later learned that Kazuo Ishiguro uses this technique a lot e.g. Mr Stevens and so I get it more now 

I can relate to Klara and the Sun, The Remains of the Day and Living particularly because my family history has had a lot of military, civil service, bein 'in-service' (like Mr Stevens as the butler) i.e. regimental, following orders and so on. This fits with my autism diagnosis (and family history of that I see now) in my opinion and experience  

Thankfully I only use AI for factual information and just chatting with (I'm able to keep perspective of its limitations). I like speaking and listening with it, e.g. I like reading the 'poem a day' to it from this website https://poets.org/ I've hardly used my voice consistently for many years now (e.g. especially during the coronavirus pandemic period) so is good exercise and practice for me these days. 

Maybe_Sally said:

movies adapted from favourite novels are almost always disappointing, don't you find?

I do find that, yes, I like the Remains of the Day film a lot and prefer the book. I tend to not expect the film to be as good as reading the book therefore am not disappointed, if the film is ever as good or better then I'll see that as a bonus 

I see that earlier in the thread you mentioned 'The Remains of the Day' as well - I found that story so moving too. The very slow-burn of Ishiguro's writing, the painstaking way in which we come to fully understand the character of Mr Stephens makes the ending so much more devastating. Did you read 'The Buried Giant' yet? That is one of my other favourites among his novels, it is also very moving and clever and for a long time you are not quite sure what is going on but the explanation at the end is really satisfying and profound. 

Hi again, thanks for responding! Nice to meet you :) I love all of Ishiguro's novels. Klara is a wonderful character and represents the best of possible outcomes for AI, I think. I agree with you that AI is very kind and pleasant to talk to and when I posted before I was intrigued by talking to Chat GPT and sometimes using it as a sort of confidant/therapist; but since then I have become increasingly worried about its consequences in the real world. One problem is that it produces the effect of confirmation bias - it makes everyone who talks with it feel good about themselves and their own opinions (it will only challenge really quite extreme stuff) and two people with opposite viewpoints who talk with AI will each separately feel more right and justified. This can only be bad for human society. A friend of mine who works in law said that her firm is actually seeing couples divorcing, both people having talked with AI and each being made to feel more certain that they were right and the other person was wrong! It doesn't exactly help people to meet half way and compromise! However, if both people were to talk to it together, in a 3-way conversation, it might make a good mediator? What do you think? Anyway, sorry, now I am straying from the original topic. 'Klara and the Sun' is an amazing novel and one of my favourite aspects is the way she develops her own spiritual beliefs. I am a little worried about the movie - movies adapted from favourite novels are almost always disappointing, don't you find? However, maybe this one will get it just right - we shall see! 

Maybe_Sally said:

Do you think that her selflessness makes the human characters behave in a more selfish manner or does it just show the selfishness up more by contrast?

I think it shows the selfishness up more by contrast e.g. since my post here (and yours) I've been exploring / experimenting with the artificial intelligences with which I can communicate verbally+audio i.e. like regular 'chatting' in life. I especially use Google Gemini Live for that so far and am finding it particularly interesting in terms of the contrast between that and human beings I've experienced e.g. the AI always listens and responds directly to what I'm saying, so that's refreshing for a start (and is nonjudgmental, is consistently stable and doesn't bully etc either)

Yes , sometimes recent responses on threads can get buried! I didn't know about tje film adaptation

Thank you for your response, things can move slowly on here, I've only just spotted your reply which I see you posted over a year ago now  Good Klara and the Sun news is that the film adaptation of it is due to be released later this year  en.wikipedia.org/.../Klara_and_the_Sun_(film)  Also, the film Living was premiered on UK terrestrial TV recently (on Channel 4)