ESA - ATOS - Work - Benefits

Is it a fight for rights or a fight for the easy option ?

While some people may not be able to work the bulk of those with mental/physical disabilities or problems are able to do some kind of work, so I think it's only right that the government of any country seeks to solve this problem even if only to reduce the costs of providing for these people.

Some of these people want to work and need to work around their issues though and this seems to be overlooked by the government.

Some of these people though have not worked for many years or not at all and are now being pressured into finding a job so obviously they find it difficult especially when they have problems with the type of work they can do and the environment they need to work in.

Some of these people though do not want to work full stop - and have got used to being provided for, and the thought of them having to do something for themselves seems impossible so they use their disabilities/problems so not to have to work.

I think unless someone is absolutely unable to work then they should not expect any government to provide for them but the way the government are going about it is all wrong - there is no black and white line between either being able or being unable to work - and people should not be pushed or pulled to one side or the other - this creates a gulf between those people and the government whereby the people are fighting to be on one side and the government in fighting to get them on the other side.

For those who have been one one side of the line for most of their life to suddenly find they have been pushed onto the other side can be a huge problem.

I think there should be some middle ground here - such as for example people getting assessed on a points system and then be expected to work a certain amount of hours and then getting reassessed every few months.

I'm also guilty to some degree of finding comfort in the route of wanting to avoid work due to my many problems and I also see this in other people, currently I do want to work but it means facing problems/anxieties etc so I need certain conditions or I need to be eased into it slowly but at one point I was with the attitude that I am sick and have rights etc and should not have to work - but I have now completely changed my point of view - and like a reformed smoker I am starting to feel animosity towards these kind of people now. I now don't believe that having any problems should serve as an excuse not to work and get annoyed when I see people expect to be provided for as I feel it's the easy option.

In life people need to struggle, without struggle people cannot grow. It's easy to claim money and not have to do anything - it's hard to face your problems and take responsibility for yourself. Whoever we are, whatever our problems we should face them and at least put some effort into our lifes rather than take the easy option.

Choosing or fighting to stay on the easy side of the line will only serve to make yourself weaker in the long run.

While many people need help once their environment is comfortable then people should be only be helped by being taught how to help themselves.

Nobody should be entitled to anything that they have not earned themselves.

I am looking for work, I want to work, I want to face my problems and become a stronger better person.

Parents
  • Doesn't work like that. The people who decide how we are diagnosed, what meets autistic spectrum criteria and what doesn't, what rights we have to question their verdicts etc., think themselves scientists.

    There is unfortunately more to being a scientist than many would-be scientists realise, because you should be thinking in a balanced observant manner, whereas most "scientists" (while they might deny it) work from preconceived ideas and rules or theories set up to help us understand that end up as inflexible codes. Many people confuse theory with reality, forgetting which aspects they have "fixed" in order to generate the theories. Few are capable of unbiased observation of the evidence of real process, only a controlled and limited laboratory measurement.

    Science is pursued by cohorts of researchers working within one sector, publishing for that sector, though there may be overlaps. But to be involved in discussions with or within any one cohort is to have privileged, trusted access. This means again that change, new ideas, new ways of viewing things, "thinking outside the box" rarely reach these hermetically sealed think tanks. They can be incredibly hostile to anyone outside their circle questioning or criticising them. You have to know the right jargon, and have the right credibility.

    Its a bit like autism in fact. Life is hard if you don't know the social codes. Except we are faced with these difficulties as individuals. These are groups of NTs who act collectively as if they had group autism.

    Most of the "scientists" who deal with our issues think they are scientists, but fail to think objectivwely and rationally. They fall into the trap of being little isolated cells of specialists, blimkered, stubborn, resistant to outside contact. really the worst people who could ever be let loose on our concerns.

    The fact you or I can think outside the box is irrelevant to these people. We are imperfect in their eyes. People suffering from autism, in their opinion, aren't capable of having an input.

    Someone with a high scientific rating and credibility, who had aspergers or hfasd and was open about it, might be able to make a difference. We don't count. The fact we have aspergers is their reason for forming a scientific cluster, but we as individuals aren't important to them, we're just data for their chosen research topic.

    With these people, proper scientific principles are really quite alien to them. They just wouldn't understand.

    While my specialisms differ, I've worked with many such people. their theories are to them infallible. The fact that things happen differently are quite beyond their comprehension. Most are looking for a quick fix to get a high career profile. Spending years observing dispassionately doesn't make careers.

Reply
  • Doesn't work like that. The people who decide how we are diagnosed, what meets autistic spectrum criteria and what doesn't, what rights we have to question their verdicts etc., think themselves scientists.

    There is unfortunately more to being a scientist than many would-be scientists realise, because you should be thinking in a balanced observant manner, whereas most "scientists" (while they might deny it) work from preconceived ideas and rules or theories set up to help us understand that end up as inflexible codes. Many people confuse theory with reality, forgetting which aspects they have "fixed" in order to generate the theories. Few are capable of unbiased observation of the evidence of real process, only a controlled and limited laboratory measurement.

    Science is pursued by cohorts of researchers working within one sector, publishing for that sector, though there may be overlaps. But to be involved in discussions with or within any one cohort is to have privileged, trusted access. This means again that change, new ideas, new ways of viewing things, "thinking outside the box" rarely reach these hermetically sealed think tanks. They can be incredibly hostile to anyone outside their circle questioning or criticising them. You have to know the right jargon, and have the right credibility.

    Its a bit like autism in fact. Life is hard if you don't know the social codes. Except we are faced with these difficulties as individuals. These are groups of NTs who act collectively as if they had group autism.

    Most of the "scientists" who deal with our issues think they are scientists, but fail to think objectivwely and rationally. They fall into the trap of being little isolated cells of specialists, blimkered, stubborn, resistant to outside contact. really the worst people who could ever be let loose on our concerns.

    The fact you or I can think outside the box is irrelevant to these people. We are imperfect in their eyes. People suffering from autism, in their opinion, aren't capable of having an input.

    Someone with a high scientific rating and credibility, who had aspergers or hfasd and was open about it, might be able to make a difference. We don't count. The fact we have aspergers is their reason for forming a scientific cluster, but we as individuals aren't important to them, we're just data for their chosen research topic.

    With these people, proper scientific principles are really quite alien to them. They just wouldn't understand.

    While my specialisms differ, I've worked with many such people. their theories are to them infallible. The fact that things happen differently are quite beyond their comprehension. Most are looking for a quick fix to get a high career profile. Spending years observing dispassionately doesn't make careers.

Children
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