What is the difference between Asperger Syndrome and ASD Level 1?

stupid schools.

no idea about anything.

there is no such thing as asd level one. there's just autistic, and not autistic. an autistic person can sometimes struggle a lot, or a little. an autistic person can sometimes need a lot of support, or a little. each autistic person is unique, the same way each not autistic person is unique. and of course, an undiagnosed and unsupported autistic person will probably struggle a lot, especially with social, sensory etc, as their environment and lifestyle will be catered for a nuerotypical person rather than who they really are.

to say that you need xyz for a autism diagnosis is absurd.

even the dsm criteria are stupid, as they are based on observation "symptoms" rather than the holistic view of a person, and how autism is actually a big strength as well as a weakness.

but regarding the asberger/asd level one from a "medical" perspective (which is of course incorrect) then yes they are the same thing.

To answer your last question first: Is a noticeable speech and language delay and being behind academically in the main subjects essential criteria for an ASD Level 1 diagnosis? - NO. 

I am 46 years old, female, and received a diagnosis of grade 1 autism two years ago. I never had any speech or language delays (my mum says I started talking at 9 months old and haven't shut up since), I have a markedly above average IQ, I did GCSEs, A levels, a Bachelor's degree and I have been a qualified veterinary surgeon for over 20 years. I defy anyone to say that's "behind academically"!

Martin's comments are correct, the NHS now uses the DSM-5 criterion hence my diagnosis grade, also nicknamed high functioning autism. It would in previous years have been classed as Aspergers. 

The boy's school clearly does not know enough about the full spectrum of presentations of autism. However, neither can the school nor a policeman, however well intentioned,  make a diagnosis. The first step must be for the mother to approach the boy's doctor and seek a proper assessment. There are other conditions than autism that can appear very similar but need different handling and treatment.

I'm guessing they are waiting for ICD-11 to gain greater usage in the NHS first. Whether you like the NHSs term usage or not uk charities and public bodies are generally going to adopt their terms for the sake of clarity and consistency.

In ICD-11:

6A02.0 Autism spectrum disorder without disorder of intellectual development and with mild or no impairment of functional language

Description: All definitional requirements for autism spectrum disorder are met, intellectual functioning and adaptive behaviour are found to be at least within the average range (approximately greater than the 2.3rd percentile), and there is only mild or no impairment in the individual's capacity to use functional language (spoken or signed) for instrumental purposes, such as to express personal needs and desires.

At a meeting at my local AS support group it was unanimously agreed that 6A02.0 Autism spectrum disorder without disorder of intellectual development and with mild or no impairment of functional language in ICD-11 is Asperger Syndrome in all but name. Included at the meeting was a clinical psychologist who is familiar with both ICD and DSM.

There doesn't appear to be much evidence at the moment that the NAS intends to make much use of 6A02.0 in any of its publications or has geared up for ICD-11. Neither has the NAS (knowingly) consulted anybody on the choice of a popular or everyday name for 6A02.0 as Autism spectrum disorder without disorder of intellectual development and with mild or no impairment of functional language is a bit of a mouthful.

Is Tony Attwood's book now obsolescent?

community.autism.org.uk/.../the-complete-guide-to-asperger-s-syndrome-by-tony-attwood

The majority of the NHS & its trusts now use Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5 and have completely abandoned International Classification of Diseases 10 because the information was decades out of date. 

The reason the International Classification of Diseases 11 mentions Classical Autism, Aspergers & Pervasive Developmental Disorder – Not Otherwise Specified is to be inclusive those already diagnosed with the outdated diagnosis.  

Your local support group isn't operated by medical professionals or if it is they are lacking up to date training. No medical professional in the UK should be giving out diagnosis of Asperger's as neither the  Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5 & International Classification of Diseases 11 View them as official diagnosis. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and the National Center for Health Statistics who created the International Classification of Diseases 10 in 2018 released information regarding the information on Classical Autism, Aspergers & Pervasive Developmental Disorder – Not Otherwise Specified was outdated and they no longer support Classical Autism, Aspergers & Pervasive Developmental Disorder – Not Otherwise Specified as official diagnosis.

However they can give a individual a diagnosis of Autism spectrum disorder with the formal diagnosis containing information comparing traits to aspergers.          

tbh if they expelled people for that theyd have no kids in that school lol
hell teachers got attacked there. we had a teacher that came from london and tried to be strict and teach science, no one was having it, everyone threw thick text books at his face. it was a shitty school with no discipline and a ever rioting class. of which is why i needed to defend myself in that way in the first place...

Caelus said:

ah my school placed me in the lowest set for english was in highest at first natrually due to my great sats results but because some knob attacked me in class and forced me to react and stab him with a pen in my defence i ended up getting placed in lowest set with a bunch of morons that cant even read

I find this one hard to believe. Expulsion, yes, but classes are organised by academic ability and not the ability to stab people the hardest!

This is a difficult and unusual case as it has involved a Prevent referral. His mother thinks that the teachers at the school have totally overreacted and blown a trivial issue out of proportion in the first place. I'm inclined to believe it. Have a read of this article and it will provide a clearer picture of the way Prevent referrals work

https://www.islam21c.com/news-views/muslim-boy-referred-to-prevent-after-calling-for-charitable-giving/

It's unclear whether the school really needs to provide any support services.

There is definitely a case of a cultural clash and misunderstanding going on.

Caelus said:

well arnt people with ASD usually above average academically anyway?

If you factor out people who meet the criteria for a diagnosis of AS and autistic savants, then generally no. The type of children that NAS run schools cater for are more likely to be below average academically.

Blue said:

The International Classification of Diseases 11 was published this year and it adopted the same approach to autism spectrum disorder as the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5. the International Classification of Diseases 11 has put Classical Autism, Aspergers & Pervasive Developmental Disorder – Not Otherwise Specified into a single Diagnosis of Autism spectrum disorder. which on a previous thread i tried explaining was happening.  

There is a big question whether Britain will adopt ICD-11 for ASD or whether DSM-5 will dominate the show until DSM-6 is published. Remember that Americans don't generally use ICD for psychiatric and mental health conditions.

The US previously used DSM-IV for ASD, so the changeover to DSM-5 was the changeover to a newer edition of the same manual. Britain previously used ICD-10 for ASD, so the changeover to DSM-5 was the changeover to a completely different manual.

There are significant differences between ICD-11 and DSM-5 for ASD. In ICD 11, the types of ASD are categorised whereas in DSM-5 they are a one-dimensional spectrum. AS still technically exists in ICD-11. 

Blue said:

No one is being diagnosed with Aspergers since 2018

Untrue. My local AS support group is aware that people have been diagnosed with AS under ICD-10 in 2021.

Where does this 2018 come from?

Your comments above (and below) totally reflect my understanding of where DSM5/ICD11 is trying position the whole thing. (I did really find the concept of it 'being diagnosable based on a threshold of whether support was required or not' actually quite helpful - if a bit strange).

I haven't found many cohesive opinions about brain imaging PET/MRI etc scans... do you have any objective info sources / links on the physiological side of things that you think are worth looking into?

 

The level accompanied by the diagnosis is no more than a suggested level of support given by a professional who diagnosed you with autism. It's often no longer used as the levels doesn't stay consistent through autistic individuals life as certain life events, comorbid disorders and age all affect the ability to function causing inconsistencies in support required. 

support levels are being phased out of the diagnosis process as support level 1 was mistakenly given to autistic females as they tend to camoflauge, mask and fake social skills hiding the severity of issues during autism assessments. The leveling system also was abused by medical professionals & social support services as the term high functioning was replaced with level 1 autism spectrum disorder which was used to refuse support or assistance because the vagueness in the diagnostic manuals and literature.

Schools across england have Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator who are supposedly qualified in learning disabilities and neurodivergence and are qualified to make referrals with parents permission to pediatricians & Medical professionals. Unfortunately Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator are limited by funding restraints set by local authorities and schools in the meantime before an autistic child gets official diagnosis schools often have to fork out their limited funding on support for the a single child. the local authority often refuses to backdate or reimburse the schools on money spent on providing additional support and will only start giving the school funding the day in which a child receives a diagnosis which can range from anything from a few months to several years which schools are hesitant on doing. This often means children who are academically gifted or are able to just get by are potentially ignored or purposely overlooked. Sometimes you'll find the school will throw them into special class with a single teaching assistance to thirty students to save money.  

which means schools actively discourage the Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator making referrals for that exact reason.                

The International Classification of Diseases 11 was published this year and it adopted the same approach to autism spectrum disorder as the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5. the International Classification of Diseases 11 has put Classical Autism, Aspergers & Pervasive Developmental Disorder – Not Otherwise Specified into a single Diagnosis of Autism spectrum disorder. which on a previous thread i tried explaining was happening.  

No one is being diagnosed with Aspergers since 2018 however those who where previously given the diagnosis still use the diagnosis as it is what they where statemented with. 

Know the information your using to distinguish the difference between autism and aspergers is out of date by about a decade. the inconsistency in early development was recognised as no longer be a sure indication of the criteria for the diagnosis as Brain and MRI imaging has showed in the last few years.   

Once there is a medical diagnosis there should be an end to that debate. Instead they can debate how much support is needed. And if your child’s issues are such that the police are getting involved that’s a hard argument for them to win once the diagnosis is in place.

Kindly expressed! Going from the the following quote I thought otherwise: "‘Asperger’s disorder’, or ‘Asperger’s syndrome’, is actually no longer an official diagnosis in the UK (or the USA, for that matter). Since 2013 this was dropped in favour of ‘autism spectrum disorder’ (ASD)."

“limit and impair everyday functioning” - could equally be interpreted as having an aversion to noisy places or crowds, or an inability to follow conversations when levels of background noise are high. I have these aversions and inabilities, and many others, that NT people do not usually have, and yes they limit and impair my everyday functioning.

To be blunt, as you seem to use bluntness yourself, without a clinical diagnosis you haven't a leg to stand on in regard to getting accommodations from the school. In the absence of a diagnosis they are not legally obliged to put anything in place, and you are then reliant on their sympathy and helpfulness, which appears to be non-existent. 

get professional help. A clinical assessment would be the best thing for the child mentioned then no one can argue.

My local AS support group is aware that many schools have tightened up on who gets recognised with ASD after they changed from ICD-10 to DSM-5. They favour students who are behind academically.

It's obvious why. Help and support is predominantly focused on getting lower and middle ability students up to the C / 4 grade and they leave higher ability students to languish and sort their own lives out. League tables and Ofsted.

I was a victim of C grade mediocrity whilst I was at school. All the help and support went on the lower and middle ability students.

It depends on the Trust and even the consultant. The decision for NHS Trusts to change from ICD-10 (what medical professionals use) to DSM-5 has not been without controversy.

The nhs tends to prefer the dsm-5 over the ICD-10 these days, at least for autism, so if you get a formal diagnosis in the uk your child would probably get ASD rather than AS as a diagnosis 

ah my school placed me in the lowest set for english was in highest at first natrually due to my great sats results but because some knob attacked me in class and forced me to react and stab him with a pen in my defence i ended up getting placed in lowest set with a bunch of morons that cant even read lol i then got a grade E on english then after school i was evaluated by a unbiased source who then gave me a A equivalent and told me that not only that i could easily pass a diploma level in english at the level i was at. thus proving the high schools and GCSEs are a complete waste of time and very biased.

my RE results were worse though, but i probs deserved that one, i dont believe in religion so i gave it to them bluntly that their imaginary friends dont exist so i got a grade G which i didnt think anything lower than grade F existed so thats rather funny haha the grade G exists more than their God does.