Update on Talha Ahsan

ALADDIN said:

I know, the cases of Babar Ahmad and Talha Ahsan are interlinked, but we did not know a lot about Talha Ahsan unti 2011.

My local independent Asperger support group has been campaigning for Talha Ahsan for over two years after finding out that he is diagnosed with AS. After a very careful and thorough study of his case a decision was made to support him and join his campaign to stop the extradition.

In contrast, Talha Ahsan is a persona non grata at the local branch of the NAS and the officials are very effective at silencing and suppressing any discussion of him. I'm not sure whether it is just a local decision or whether they are following orders from the national senior figures.

I think extraditing, Babar and Talha, with Abu Hamza, Khalid Al-Fawwaz and Mr Bari, was very devious and nasty so that Gary's extradition could be blocked.

Gary's extradition decision date was delayed until October, so that Talha could have been extradited. I do not think a decision was done behind close doors for Gary McKinnon, the American government wanted him, he said to be the greatest hacker.

It's undeniable that the decision to block the extradition of Gary McKinnon was delayed until after the ECHR had given their verdict on the five Muslims and they were extradited. There was anger from the US government at the decision to block the extradition of Gary McKinnon but I can't help wondering whether it was artificial to cover over any suspicions that deals were done behind closed doors.

Alan Johnson, the last Labour Home Secretary wanted to extradite Gary McKinnon.

Alan Johnson's views were out on a limb at the time the decision by Theresa May to block the extradition of Gary McKinnon was made. There was reasonably broad support of the decision from Labour on the day. If Alan Johnson had still been Home Secretary then he would without any doubt have extradited Gary McKinnon but then he would also have extradited Talha Ahsan.

I suspected the extradition of Babar and Talha, are related to terrorist allegations

There could be issues of popular opinion at play. Although it is clearly evident that Gary McKinnon has committed a serious crime and he has admitted it, hacking into government computers is a somewhat tolerable action for a geeky individual with AS. In other words, he is a loveable rogue. Talha Ahsan only has allegations against him without any evidence to back them up and he says he is not guilty, but the majority of society hold the view that there is no smoke without fire, so have already concluded that he is a dangerous terrorist. 

If the N.A.S had supported Talha Ahsan, a lot of the members (parents of children who read the Daily Mail) will be dissatisfied, and complain to the Daily Mail.

Difficult to say really. There are probably just as many Guardian readers as there are Daily Mail readers in the NAS. I suppose there is the issue of popular opinion as described above.

There are a few people around who think that Gary McKinnon should have been extradited but Talha Ahsan shouldn't have been.

Membership of the N.A.S is  largely a white conservative middle class group.

I will also add to this that they are largely NT parents of children with traditional autism or recently diagnosed AS who have much faith in the school system and the government. Clued up parents of children and teenagers with high functioning AS tend to steer clear of the NAS.

If Talha Ahsan, dies in a USA prison (I hope he comes home), the American government are in trouble as well as the British government, I think the American media will focus on the case. I think it is very likely a prosecution of the Government if he dies will be successful because of the hard facts (very likely to commit suicide and similarities to Gary McKinnon).

If a suicide occurs then there will be an inquiry but whether anything results from it is a different matter. What I want to know is why is there a one year delay before his trial?

I know, the cases of Babar Ahmad and Talha Ahsan are interlinked, but we did not know a lot about Talha Ahsan unti 2011. Babar Ahmad case was much more prominent. Babar Ahmad was viciously beaten, Talha Ahsan's name mentioned in Guantanamo Bay , I do not know. 

Christopher Tappin, was extradited to the USA in February 2012, despite widespread opposition.

See,

www.bbc.co.uk/.../uk-20619049

Abid Naseer is not a having forum bar, which could have saved Babar & Talha. 

I think extraditing, Babar and Talha, with Abu Hamza, Khalid Al-Fawwaz and Mr Bari, was very devious and nasty so that Gary's extradition could be blocked.

Gary's extradition decision date was delayed until October, so that Talha could have been extradited. I do not think a decision was done behind close doors for Gary McKinnon, the American government wanted him, he said to be the greatest hacker.

In a Yougov poll, only 9% of people thought Richard O'Dwyer he should have been extradited.

Alan Johnson, the last Labour Home Secretary wanted to extradite Gary McKinnon.

I suspected the extradition of Babar and Talha, are related to terrorist allegations, blocking those extraditions would cause more problems but Haroon Rashid Aswat (Abu Hamza's codefendent may not face extradition).

I think it is the opinion of the British public. Richard O'Dwyer had the most support.

Gary McKinnon had the support of the Daily Mail.

Babar and Talha had some support.

If the N.A.S had supported Talha Ahsan, a lot of the members (parents of children who read the Daily Mail) will be dissatisfied, and complain to the Daily Mail. People cannot compete with the Daily Mail. Membership of the N.A.S is  largely a white conservative middle class group.

The others including Abu Hamza, Abu Qatada, Haroon, Khalid al Fawwaz, Adel Bari receive almost no support.

If Talha Ahsan, dies in a USA prison (I hope he comes home), the American government are in trouble as well as the British government, I think the American media will focus on the case. I think it is very likely a prosecution of the Government if he dies will be successful because of the hard facts (very likely to commit suicide and similarities to Gary McKinnon).

ALADDIN said:

I did not know a lot about the Babar Ahmad case until earlier this year, when Talha Ahsan had aspergers and Babar Ahmad gave an interview , showen on BBC Newsnight.

The two cases are intertwined. The extradition request for Talha Ahsan came two years after that of Babar Ahmad and can only have come about as a result of some information bearing his name surfacing in the meantime. There are pointers that his name was mentioned by a prisoner in Guantanamo bay whilst being tortured.

If he dies, the Government is in very serious trouble (especially Theresa May). The family can take the Government to Court, it will have repurcussions maybe like the murder of Stephen Lawrence. If the Government is sued the whole story will emerge.

The family will try to take the government to court over the extradition but whether they will succeed in a prosecution is another matter. I am of the opinion that the extradition is a politically motivated attack where the executive has control over the judiciary, which means that an attempt to prosecute the government will not be successful even if the evidence is clear. It is difficult to say whether Talha Ahsan will become another Stephen Lawrence if he dies in custody because Stephen Lawrence had plenty of media coverage whereas the British media will probably ignore Talha Ahsan.

Gary McKinnon had his extradition blocked because of the Human Rights Act, Theresa May could and should have used the Human Rights Act to block Talha's extradition.

This is guessing but I think there was some deal done behind closed doors that if the UK gives the US Talha Ahsan and Babar Ahmad then Gary McKinnon and Richard O'Dwyer will not be extradited.

I also think that senior figures in the NAS know something about the Talha Ahsan case that is not in the public domain - and his family and lawyers may also not be aware of.

I did not know a lot about the Babar Ahmad case until earlier this year, when Talha Ahsan had aspergers and Babar Ahmad gave an interview , showen on BBC Newsnight.

Talha Ahsan was known to have a suicide risk, he has aspergers had a high suicide risk, the same risk as Gary . Most of the British public will support Gary but not Talha.

If he dies, the Government is in very serious trouble (especially Theresa May). The family can take the Government to Court, it will have repurcussions maybe like the murder of Stephen Lawrence. If the Government is sued the whole story will emerge.

Gary McKinnon had his extradition blocked because of the Human Rights Act, Theresa May could and should have used the Human Rights Act to block Talha's extradition. 

An act must be refused it causes the loss of a life

Some people in the USA, will be angry.

See

A European Court of Human Rights hearing in March this year said that before Talha was diagnosed with Asperger’s, “a psychiatrist had predicted a high risk of serious depression leading to suicide if the third applicant (Ahsan) were to be extradited and placed in solitary confinement for a long period.”

After being diagnosed with aspergers, the risk of suicide for Talha Ahsan, will be very high.

See 

en.wikipedia.org/.../Abdelhakim_Belhadj

As of December 2011, Belhajd has begun legal proceedings against the British government over its role in his rendition to Libya.[16][17][18] Jack Straw is reported to have privately admitted that he approved the British assistance in Belhadj's capture while Foreign Secretary,[19] though Tony Blair continues to deny all knowledge.[20]

I had not heard of Belhaj until the Arab Spring.

Who has heard of Hakim Belhaj ?

If he can take the British Government to Court, Talha Ahsan can.

Do you remember, Lotfi Riassi ?

See,

en.wikipedia.org/.../Lotfi_Raissi

en.wikipedia.org/.../Lotfi_Raissi

en.wikipedia.org/.../Lotfi_Raissi

Babar Ahmad, may sue the Government because evidence gained when he was viciously beaten,formed the basis for his extradition.

Some Democrat politicians and Barack Obama may not be comfortable with Talha's treatment.

Sen John McCain was placed in solitary confinement, as a prisoner of war in Vietnam for 2 years, he can relate to Talha's situation and might not be comfortable.

ALADDIN said:

It is difficult for the Muslim community to get mainstream links. Do you know thw situation of the British Muslim community ?

It varies dramatically. Some Muslims are very clued up about the case and campaign tirelessly. On the other hand, I have been quite reliably informed that large swathes of the Muslim community in Britain range from completely oblivious to only vaguely aware of Talha Ahsan and Babar Ahmad. Only 150,000 people signed the Babar Ahmad petition which is a drop in a bucket compared to the adult Muslim population - plus the fact that thousands of non-Muslims are also included in that figure. Rather ironically, in my locality the Muslims who are the most proactive supporters are actually quite moderate whereas the hardline and the highly devout remain largely inactive.

I think the problem with most Muslims who are not aware of what has happened lies squarely with the committees of mosques who act as the gatekeepers of what information local Muslims can and cannot receive from the mosque. Discussions with Muslims have revealed that most mosque committees have been opposed to publicising information about Talha Ahsan and Babar Ahmad for a variety of reasons. In the same way that non-Muslims are overwhelmingly swayed by the mainstream media, Muslims are swayed by the leaders of the mosques they attend and only a small fraction look beyond them for information and advice. Muslim scholars know plenty about Islam but most lack knowledge and understanding of how the real world works which is why they are ineffective at advising on secular or real world issues.

I think the Green Party (USA) know about the Talha and Babar case. I think, in the future, the case will be known.

They probably do but they are an organisation with no impact. Ralph Nader almost certainly can't have missed the case but few Americans listen to him.

Theresa May, will be forced to leave her job as a Home Secretary.

If Gary McKinnon or Richard O'Dwyer died in US custody then public pressure will force Theresa May to resign. In the case of Talha Ahsan and Babar Ahmad then there will probably be sighs of relief from the British public that another terrorist has bitten the dust, so public opinion will be on the side of Theresa May.

To be brutally honest, Theresa May has given what the majority of the British public want by blocking the extradition of Gary McKinnon and extraditing Talha Ahsan.

It will be shown in the American media, giving the UK a bad reputation.

I have no idea how the American media mindset works but even if it does give the UK a bad reputation then it's impact on this side of the Atlantic will probably be small. From the responses on Wrongplanet it seems like Americans know next to nothing about the Talha Ahsan case but appear to be in favour of the extradition.

The US is not a country I have much knowledge of. Neither do I understand the psychology of Americans other than that they hold an ill feeling towards Muslims and do not take kindly to their sovereigty being trampled on by external forces.

Gary McKinnon's extradition was blocked because it was incompatable with his Human Rights. The same theory applys to Talha Ahsan. She applied the Forum Bar for Babar and Talha at the same time, She extradited three other Muslims with Babar and Talha. Theresa May could be punished. She has dug herself a "deep hole " of problems.

Civil liberties are one thing but popular opinion is another. The punishment that Theresa May will receive will mostly come from Muslims.  

freetalha.org/.../

ALADDIN said:

The mainstream media is the most powerful unelected and unaccountable force in the UK. In a climate where the media is hostile or silent then justice is at risk. This is why it was important that the NAS got behind Talha because it could have acted as leverage to give him some positive media coverage.

This is going off at a tangent but some Muslims say that the Muslim community is also to blame for not establishing media networks that appeal to non-Muslims which could have been used as a mouthpiece to raise awareness for Talha and Babar.

I agree that the N.A.S should have helped Talha, it could have helped Talha.

It is difficult for the Muslim community to get mainstream links. Do you know thw situation of the British Muslim community ?

I think the Green Party (USA) know about the Talha and Babar case. I think, in the future, the case will be known.

If he dies, I think the consequences will be severe for Theresa May.

There will be disquiet from certain sections of the Muslim community but I doubt that the event will even get any coverage in the British mainstream media. The NAS will 

remain completely silent

Theresa May, will be forced to leave her job as a Home Secretary. The N.A.S will be silent. I think there will be some media coverage but not universal. An Iraqi, hotel worker, Baha Mousa was killed by British troops in 2003. A Libyan rebel leader was tortured, by Gaddafi's men. He was renditioned, having a desire to claim asylum in the UK. His name is Belhaj, he was given a large amount for compensation. The light will be shined on Babar Ahmad's case. It will be shown in the American media, giving the UK a bad reputation.

Gary McKinnon's extradition was blocked because it was incompatable with his Human Rights. The same theory applys to Talha Ahsan. She applied the Forum Bar for Babar and Talha at the same time, She extradited three other Muslims with Babar and Talha. Theresa May could be punished. She has dug herself a "deep hole " of problems.

See the next comment.

ALADDIN said:

If the N.A.S, had supported Talha Ahsan, there is a greater likelihood, his extradition would have been blocked, but the media was largely unsupportive of Talha's case, especially the Daily Mail. The Daily Mail gave Gary McKinnon, fantastic support, placing him on their front page.

The mainstream media is the most powerful unelected and unaccountable force in the UK. In a climate where the media is hostile or silent then justice is at risk. This is why it was important that the NAS got behind Talha because it could have acted as leverage to give him some positive media coverage.

This is going off at a tangent but some Muslims say that the Muslim community is also to blame for not establishing media networks that appeal to non-Muslims which could have been used as a mouthpiece to raise awareness for Talha and Babar.

It is shameful and disgusting our Government has decided to ignore Talha. There are mosques, autism organisations, the media and organisations such as the American Civil Liberties Union who must know about Talha Ahsan's case.

It doesn't appear as if American Muslim communities or ASD organisations have noticed this extradition yet. If they have then they are keeping quiet about it.

If anything happens to Talha, Theresa May could be in trouble.

She will blame it on the Yanks then come out with some feeble statements like "we complied with all the rules; this isn't Guantanamo Bay; the ECHR said it was OK to extradite".

If he dies, I think the consequences, will be severe for Theresa May.

There will be disquiet from certain sections of the Muslim community but I doubt that the event will even get any coverage in the British mainstream media. The NAS will remain completely silent.

If the N.A.S, had supported Talha Ahsan, there is a greater likelihood, his extradition would have been blocked, but the media was largely unsupportive of Talha's case, especially the Daily Mail. The Daily Mail gave Gary McKinnon, fantastic support, placing him on their front page.

It is shameful and disgusting our Government has decided to ignore Talha. There are mosques, autism organisations, the media and organisations such as the American Civil Liberties Union who must know about Talha Ahsan's case.

If anything happens to Talha, Theresa May could be in trouble.

If he dies, I think the consequences, will be severe for Theresa May.

ALADDIN said:

I am happy, regarding Gary McKinnon, Talha Ahsan should never have been extradited.

He will have very severe problems. A person with aspergers in solitary confinement, is a total disgrace to the UK.

He is solitary confinement, unable to contact his family.

If the NAS had supported Talha Ahsan then it would probably have succeeded in persuading Theresa May to block his extradition. My local Asperger syndrome support group was very proactive in lobbying the government to put him on trial in the UK but, like all other independent local support groups, was ignored. The NAS is the only autism and Asperger organisation that carries any weight as far as the government is concerned. 

Everyone should complain to the government !!!

The government appears to have washed its hands of him. There have been cases of MPs telling people to stop writing to them because Talha Ahsan is now outside of the control of the British government. I'm not sure how much longer Caroline Lucas will continue because of the risk of sounding like a broken record.

I am happy, regarding Gary McKinnon, Talha Ahsan should never have been extradited.

He will have very severe problems. A person with aspergers in solitary confinement, is a total disgrace to the UK.

He is solitary confinement, unable to contact his family.

If the suspect was white, non - Muslim, the Daily Mail would him.

He could die, he will have severe problems.

The evidence collected, was sent to the USA by the dodgy Metroplitan Police, after his friend, Babar Ahmad was arrested, sustaining 73 injuries, getting 60,000 pounds compensation. Blair & Bush are slimy. He was extradited, for running a website, taken down, days after 9/11, not an offence in the UK.

The truth will come out, one day

Everyone should complain to the government !!!