Disappearing Messages/Posts, 2018. (EDIT.)

I can't speak for DC, but I thought earlier today that one of my messages must have been deleted by a moderator (I could potentially see why because of 'triggering' content, but would have expected a direct message or something). It was however, as you describe to do with the order in which the messages had been originally posted. If I link to one post [71236] by NAS15974 (warning: suicide references), my reply doesn't show up even though it's a direct response, because other replies to a higher level had been posted in the interim. You have to click 'Load Next' twice for it to show up. If you follow the link directly to my reply (also possibly in bad taste), it appears underneath what it's a reply to without the intervening higher-level posts, which have disappeared.

If someone deletes a comment, do all the replies to that comment, and replies to those replies, also get deleted?

I'm chasing this up. However, I still believe that this is about threads being displayed with messages in different orders, as I set out in my previous (lengthy) response. I've seen your suggestion that I can see messages because I'm using an administrator account, but I don't believe that that is the difference.

I can see why the order varies (and I explained that too). However, I can also see why that's confusing.

I remain of the view that no system is perfect, and in particular that no forum system copes well with threads that get very long and complex, and cover several different issues. To that extent, I see your point that threads are tending to be shorter as a good thing.

I said that I thought that I had enough examples to allow me to understand the issue. Nonetheless, do please post more screenshots, ideally with the links as well, if you still see it happening. Do please check, though, as I suggested, that the missing messages are not displayed further down the thread, and visible if you Load Next or Load Previous.

This is a direct reply (apparently) to Mr WebPM.

Your reply, Sir, now dates from "Two Months Ago". 

Please tell us how this business is getting on. Replies do still disappear, yet few Threads are long enough to cause that, of late, and so less persons notice... but the trouble is still there. Thank You Very Much for your Time.

Dated: 29-03-2018.

WebPMs quote is taken from:

community.autism.org.uk/.../is-there-a-way-to-view-forum-posts-in-a-linear-way-instead-of-in-threads

WebPM said:
As a result, that linked thread is trying to establish the following: some of our users are having problems in finding certain messages in threads, and we need to know whether these are actually caused by missing messages, or by messages being present, but sometimes hard to find.

----------

Greetings WebPM. So, yet again, it requires a new perspective/Thread, to state something from a new perspective...? (やれやれ...)

What is/was going on, is that messages ARE MISSING, not "hard to find". A "Missing Message" is always found via its own link. (For me, anyway.) It may be hard to find, yet it is there, via a link from the Home Page or History or Recent Posts. Entering Via the Message, the Message is there, and others may be missing. But entering Via the Title, Missing Messages mostly reappear. My pictures showed that, I hope?
... 'Tis not my own fault, if indeed no-one else Posted pictures. I also suggested that insofar as locating the problem for yourself, that you are logging on as something like a Debugger or Administrator, and so would see everything anyway.

Notes: I could not Log On yesterday due to Personal Circumstances, sorry.
Regardless of that, I know not what else is sought after, concerning this Thread, and the previous Problems Thread.

Disambiguating Cynosure said:

THIS POST *HERE* IS ACTUALLY MY OWN FIRST POST TO THIS THREAD.

If anyone reads this... this is posted at around a Quarter-to-One in the morning, and I myself am both confused and quite cross about it.

Very reasonable response indeed methinks, DC.

Please keep in mind through this post, that you are a well appreciated member of this community.

WebPM said:

Using separate threads for distinct topics is likely to help everyone, for the reasons I stated. We are talking about difficulties in locating messages in threads, and it's also helpful for that, because it's easier to lose messages in very complex threads with lots of sub-topics. That's actually true, I believe, in any forum system, however it presents threads - it's just hard to  keep track if several conversations are going on at once.

Neurological Divergence, does though tend more to involve subject matter divergence (or sub-topics) as a matter of course, given the narrow or singular range of interests associated with Autism ~ as essentially involves people being self-centric rather than social centric, or Neurologically Typical.

Being self-centric (or Autistic) involves people being individually co-ordinated on topic matters as they see or think about them, personally.

So 'Using separate threads for distinct topics is likely to help every one' cannot be true to form of course regarding proportions of the NAS community.

Consider for instance those of us who have a more female neurology, and enjoy chatting about day to day experiences over the week or weeks. The cluster mucking or nested threading issue always occurs with such threads, and in fact any other on this website format past a particular stage.

There are also those of us who are not so confident, so joining in and staying on with a singular thread post-discussion is befitting for them, rather than as such starting a new thread.

Another consideration is for those of us who have difficulties recalling and or forgetting things, who find reading some or many of the posts refreshes the memory, and allows them to follow and use the post-trail on a thread ~ which gets extremely difficult here.

Due to the self-centric nature of Autism and Autistic Spectrum Disorders, if we experience a problem it will be continually focused on until it is resolved. I truly appreciate the difficulties you face instructing us on using this "clunky" social-centric website format ~ given the stress and strain that we on the spectrum find in using it; even when thanks to you and the team it is working!

Much respect

DT

へへへ... In order to Post this reply, I had to leave off, and re-enter via the TITLE, scroll down, and click upon WebPMs Reply!   (..Hours Of Fun..)

This HERE Reply is about the 'Nested Threading Forums' thing which I suggested. Thank You for your support, WebPM Sir. (At least I think that it is support?) I may try to start this Thread upon the 'morrow, or sometime, yet I myself cannot guarantee anything, because of 'this and that and the other' circumstances of my own...

If I may be bold here, and next try to venture something else? Mr.LoneWarrior, for one, did point out (along with other persons) that it should really be NAS starting such Threads as I have/had started. What is to be done about that? Your good self, WebPM, does reply much, yet NAS have still not begun a New Problems Thread? Also, I understand the good of this:

WebPM said:

It's rather encouraging though that this thread disappears quickly, as those other threads are people seeking, and finding, help and encouragement, which is the purpose of running this forum.

...Ye-e-es... but then problems therewith are neither known nor sorted out. Perhaps what I am saying or asking is, again, why has NAS not begun a New Thread? Even after all of this....?.

I am ending this Post, for it is getting Long. Please Keep Yourself Well, Mr.WebPM.

Greetings again, Webster-Man. I thought of Posting somethings, yet what happens is the following; I did not think that THIS Thread was long enough to cause the Errors, yet this is what I see & saw:

Entered via Last Message:

community.autism.org.uk/.../67600

*

Entered via the Title, same night:

community.autism.org.uk/.../disappearing-messages-posts-2018-edit

...As I say, the same is when I am Logged In or not. Your good self Posted two Messages, and even as this is written, I only see the last Post.

Hi

I wasn't intending to bring an end to the thread. As I mentioned, I will be raising this with the software suppliers. I have started by talking to our support specialists, in case anything we have done has affected this. By all means post asking for updates, or with anything new - I just didn't want anyone to go to the trouble of posting more screen shots if they just show the same thing.

It's rather encouraging though that this thread disappears quickly, as those other threads are people seeking, and finding, help and encouragement, which is the purpose of running this forum.

When I checked some of your examples, I found that all the messages were there. However, as I described, if you've followed a link to a message, the messaging order is different from what it is if you followed a link to the thread as a whole.

It sounds as though you're not finding that. I can only suggest that we work through the same example using the two links. As you know, a link to a thread looks like this:

community.autism.org.uk/.../disappearing-messages-posts-2018-edit

i.e. it ends with the thread name, whereas a link to a specific message looks like this:

community.autism.org.uk/.../67466

i.e. it ends with the message number twice, separated by hash characters.

Next time you have a problem, could you post both links here? Sorry for the continued trouble.

(NB I've posted this twice, in trying to make sure that it was being threaded properly. Sorry for any confusion.)

I would actually hope that this thread shows how nested threads work. Your request in your last message is a really good example. You've made two separate points, one about the missing messages, and one about this question of nested threads, and suggested, quite rightly, that I reply to each one separately. So, the discussion at this point is splitting into two sub-topics. Nested threads are designed to allow this.

As I said, though, if it gets very complex, no forum system copes well if you try to keep everything in one thread. For example, let's say that we now have a lengthy exchange about various aspects of nested threading. As soon as we spot that that is happening, it becomes sensible to start a new thread on nested threading instead. That's also helpful to people who haven't been following the discussion so far, but are interested in nested threading, because they are more likely to find it.

This Post is separated as it has little to do with the previous Post... However...

Linear Forums and Nested Forums.
I have a proposition, yet am aware that I may not be able to fulfill it due to approaching hot weather and my own devices failing... and I am fully aware that *at least* "one or two" persons upon this Community do not like me!

A new Thread:

An Incremental Thread with No Topic. To show how "Nested" Forums & Replies Work. (#This may be the Title.)

This Thread is created to illustrate how "Nested" Threads work. Contributions upon any subject are welcome (as with a "Chat Thread")...
HOWEVER: -Replies are not invited unless they begin with a number which is Plus One of the number given within the Post which is replied to.
(#This may be the Introduction.)

...

E.G.:
1 - I am Autistic. Is anyone else Autistic here? (#First Post.)
...
2 - So am I. I have ASC. (#FIRST Reply.)
...
3 - What does ASC stand for? Please tell me.
3 - I have Aspergers.
2 - I'm Autistic too. Glad to meet all of you!
(#All of these would be SECOND Replies, yet it may be shown by the numbers who is replying to whom.)
...
4 - ASC means "Autistic Spectrum Condition". Sometimes it is written as ASD (Disorder), which is how so-called "official criteria" classifies it just now.
4 - I have Aspergers too. My child has it and I don't know how to cope. Any advice?
3 - I am glad to meet you too! Welcome to the Forum!
(#All of these may be intended as THIRD Replies in a Linear Forum, yet it may be seen from the numbers - and the NESTED Indicator (The Line at the side)... Who is replying to whom.)
...
2 - I'm Autistic. So many people are here!
5 - If you have a Child, then visit the main NAS Website, and they can give you more information.
5 - What does it mean when people say NT ND or SENCO?
(#All of these are FOURTH Replies, and by now the whole thing may confuse - but for the people posting a NUMBER in the first place.)

...

It is me, DC, again, now. All of that was simply a simple example written in simplest terms as I simply could. (!) For some reason, I have had the Idea of beginning such a Thread for a long time. Yet my devices are old, and Summer is approaching, and so I will not be able to guarantee my supporting it (through Hot Weather)...

...What I am asking is if WebPM and/or anyone else... understands this Post or may appreciate the starting of a Thread like That? This request is primarily aimed at Mr.WebPM, though... for I am not all that popular enough to muster "Community Spirit", as evidenced by how many contributed to this HERE Thread and to the Problems Thread (less than 10 people).

Good Luck to all in understanding this Post!

To WebPM: Thank You in return, you are so very honest, and of course, Thanks Much for all that you do here. My own Point-Of-View is that I would usually say "どういたしまして"... yet I AM glad to have helped someone important with something important and to have a genuine appreciation stated about my doing so...! :-O & :-D

Yet you say that you "have enough screen shots", and so I am now wondering if that is the end of this Thread, or something...? (It shall thence disappear underneath the great tide of "I have a child" Temporary Posters...)

I should add that, perhaps apart from the last Picture, I made certain to press *all* "Load Next/Previous" Options, before Posting the Pictures. And again I say that it does not seem to make a difference if I am Logged In or not. Another person doing the same may have different results...?

With regards to causing "offence", it is as I said: I did not expect it, yet this was made worse by my not being correctly able to find it... It was the idea that I created it when I actually did not, that threw me... yet that is all grist to the mill for myself (i.e. experience).

If you reply to this Post, then please do so separately from the next, for it addresses a different matter which is not a problem to myself yet may help some others. Good Fortune to Yourself, as always. :-)

These are really helpful, thank you. I'm sorry for the trouble you've had to go to in order to paste these, but they make things so much clearer, so I appreciate your help. Since the pattern appears to be consistent, I think I have enough screen shots.

I can see what's happening, and I think I understand the reasons. I'm not sure either whether it's intended to work that way, or whether, if it is, that's a good idea, so it's going to take me some time to investigate. I'll try to have an answer in a couple of weeks; I'm not sure, especially with the holiday coming, whether I can do better than that.

The difference is, as I think Disambiguating Cynosure has suggested, between a view that is centred on a message, and a view of the whole thread. This forum,as we know, takes a "nesting" approach, that takes account of the fact that I am replying to a message from DC, and shows that by indenting my message under DC's. By contrast, in a "linear" forum, my message would always be last, even if DC's were ten messages higher in the thread.

So, if you follow a link to my message in this thread, the software is mostly concerned to show my message in context with DC's, and also any replies to my message in particular. For that reason, it does not show any other replies to DC's message. If I scroll down a bit and use Load Next, those other replies appear, but below the messages that are already showing. These Load Next links are just out of shot in most of the screen images above.

If you follow a link to the whole thread, then all replies are shown in their places (although you may have to use Load Next or Load Previous to display them). As a result, if you've started with a link to a message, the "missing" messages under discussion in this thread may, when revealed, appear somewhat lower down in the thread than if you started with a link to the thread.

Links to messages appear in email notifications, and also in the forum in "In reply to" links above messages. Links to the thread appear in listings of the topics in a particular forum, and of course the list of topics on the forum home page.

As I said, I am not sure that listing the same messages in different orders in different circumstances is helpful. I will need to look into this before commenting much further, including speaking to the software suppliers.

I am sorry to DC for causing offence by moving this topic into a separate thread. It has been helpful to me to be able to see this topic in isolation from others, and has made it easier to understand. My apologies if that was not true for others. I'll try to find better ways of starting a new thread if I do need to move messages, but I was conscious that starting a split thread with a message of my own would complicate the nesting and ordering.

I have mentioned before that, in my view, neither nested nor linear forums cope well when many themes are discussed together in one thread. We've seen what happens in a nested forum such as this. In a linear forum, contributors tend to quote massively from the messages to which they are replying, because several essentially-unrelated messages are interspersed, and the whole string becomes huge and hard to read.

This time, it is WebPMs message (and 2 others) which is missing. From the same day, entered NOT via the Title. (Monday Tomorrow, Hope you are well, WebPM.)

Ah...! Only now checking this Thread and see this message. Thank You for your concern, yet, not meaning to sound harsh - DO NOT worry about it, Please. I myself have never learnt to EMail, and so I do not depend upon it, Sir. I can "post" which does not always require EMailing. Obviously, to be here in the first place, I must have an EMail Address, yet it is old, and so I do not, um, use it "willy-nilly", so-to-speak.

Also my devices are old, and they do odd things, and are slowly on the way out (as I wrote in my NAS Internet Thread)... and so I do not do much "New" with them. The more new things I do, the more new things they pick up, and that advances their being told: "You are defunct - Update or leave!"

This Post is getting long... I should close it. Yet in short, it asks you not to worry. (And come the hot weather, I shall not be here at all, I think! I began another Thread about that.) Thank You Absolutely.

Hi DC I agree that the title does indeed look as if it was started by you, I am glad you edited it, it was confusing that it related to pictures when it was placed here away from the picture thread,

I an tired and have had a very exhausting day, so I haven’t the energy to fully respond to the points you have shown, clearly replies are missing! Not hidden in embedded sections as alluded to by WebPM.

1. your screen captured images are proof of what we have been saying for quite some time, I find it confusing and often makes no sense when replies are missing, I consider myself very lucky in that I use and own an iPad tablet device, it is quick, I can move quickly from one place to another, the reply box is big, I will add a screen captured shot of my words as seen as I type them into the reply box,
2. 

You often say you cannot receive or send non private messages. And you cannot EMail nor PM.

I selected and held down over your user name and can not see email. It does have unfollow and request friendship.

Have you checked your settings? There is a section to allow three types of private messages, no one,Friends only,and Everyone, 

Are you saying you can not recieve friend requests or just non private messages?

 If you want I can friend request you to check if you can then recieve private messages?

Thank you for posting the missing replies, should be easy to understand by WebPM now, the missing replies are NOT hidden within embedded sections, 

take care DC, 

x()x

Pictures again of yesterday:

This first, from entering via a Reply:

Next from enering via the Title. Missing Messages are visible:

...I cannot know if what is Posted here thus far is helpful to WebPM, until WebPM himself replies, despite WebPM asking for this sort of thing...

And very few Threads become as long as this, of late. If anyone knows of other Threads and Replies disappearing, again I say that this is the reason for this Thread which WebPM started in my UserName...

To Mr. LoneWarrior, Again, Thank You, for this Reply. 

To anyone else who may read... This is the Third Thread, now, I cannot really keep track of any more. Please heed and read WebPM and that to which he replies. (Even if you do not like "me"!)

Just now... it is Midnight, and I may sign off, and can only wait to see what is made of this Thread. 

Just to add, when I came on earlier I saw three notifications, I clicked on the one relevant to the images you posted, the reply from WebPM, your message was not between the two messages, I would have noticed it for sure as you were kind to mention me. Thanks by the way, very kind words,

 when I later went back tobvread it again by selecting it from the main menu it was indeed sat between the two replies,

 just more confusion. I replied direct to WebPM last night, it did not appear under his message, I did select reply, all rathervrandom, I did not screen capture it, I would have no device memory left if I had to screen capture all threads just in case,

 thank you DC, x()x

...I am done posting all of these pictures here for now, Thank You to anyone reading.