Autism or cPTSD? Which?

I am beginning to wonder something similar, perhaps due to my feelings of imposter syndrome around being on the spectrum. Last time I was going through a burnout/breakdown I couldn’t have people too close to me, even walking in the street was a nightmare, why would someone choose to sit next to me when plenty of other chairs are available was another thought I had. It felt they were invading my space and I quickly had to move out of their way, this got better with increased hours of sleep and withdrawal from the expectations of the world. I don’t particularly like strangers sitting next to me on the bus or anywhere really, I feel they are way too close so I tend to avoid public transport. I suppose it’s down to us to venture into the deep parts of our workings and figure out just exactly what it is that’s making us uncomfortable, is it a perceived lack of control over our autonomy? Are we trying to predict the future to avoid an overload of more raw emotions and trauma because we are already juggling the load we have?

Autismman said:

Are we trying to predict the future to avoid an overload of more raw emotions and trauma because we are already juggling the load we have?

Yes, I think that is a large part of what is going on in my head. I need to "figure this out" and "get this right" or "these bad things will happen ... again."

Autismman said:

Are we trying to predict the future to avoid an overload of more raw emotions and trauma because we are already juggling the load we have?

Yes, I think that is a large part of what is going on in my head. I need to "figure this out" and "get this right" or "these bad things will happen ... again."

Autismman said:

following rules and not liking them being broken is most definitely a classic autism trait

Yeah, when I look at the diagnostic criteria and read, "Excessive adherence to rules", I think, how can that ever be excessive? Rules are rules.

If I know that rules are going to be broken, I have to tell myself in advance that this is going to happen, that I shouldn't expect otherwise and that I should remain calm. It could be that someone does not know the rules, or someone does not have the capacity to follow the rules, so it's not necessarily that they are bad people. (I learned that from Marcus Aurelius!)

I think this has a lot to do with the need for events to be predictable. If rules are followed, then events are far more predictable.

The following rules and not liking them being broken is most definitely a classic autism trait. May well just be that your perception of the world is different from others, nothing wrong with that, more people should obey the rules, they are there for a reason. I can understand why this would cause you a great deal of stress. 

Autismman said:

So it’s more of a rules based ideology

OMG, yes! I love a good rule. I get terrifically worked up when I see rules being broken. My current bugbear is people who don't stop their car fully behind the white line at a red traffic light. Come the revolution...

So it’s more of a rules based ideology that you tend to follow and if others are seen to disobey or disregard your view on common sense and safety this causes you worry, concern and ultimately leads to increased stress and anxiety which you are trying to avoid all along? I would compare that to my need to order within my home, I get frustrated and overloaded if things are moved about and not put away tidily, I don’t mind a mess as long as it’s a neat and orderly mess. Things have to be done as soon as possible like washing up and crumbs need to be hoovered before I can relax. As long as I feel there is tasked that have been completed or are on their way to being completed I’m all good. Some people live in clutter and I don’t know how they could ever do that. My mother was a hoarder and would obsessively collect clothes from charity shops which filled up the house along with various ornaments and plastic bags filled with all odd and ends she felt she may one day need.

Thanks for engaging with me here, Autismman. Your gentle probing is helping me to get things a bit straighter in my head.

Autismman said:

So you are trying to avoid further anxiety by completing these self set actions which are influenced by the advise give during Covid and if you are unable to complete these tasks or enough of them to feel safe your anxiety can climb?

Not really. I've long had a "special interest" in microbiology and immunology. I have a good basic knowledge of how these things work. The COVID advice was something that was just basic infection control. If everyone had followed it to the letter, COVID would have disappeared in a few weeks. But everyone didn't follow it and I could see people not following it every time I had to go and buy food. There are always those who go, "I was just...", or "I just have to...", or "It's my human right to...", or whatever and many more people died because of them. So, yeah, standing in a queue when the person behind you is a) standing too close, and b) has their mask positioned UNDER THEIR NOSE, used to stress me right out. I'd be trying to swallow a meltdown until I got out the door. I don't feel I was being irrational; I was educated and I was being observant and I understood the potential consequences. But, I'm also AuDHD and small emotional triggers can cause a huge emotional reaction in my little brain, one that appears disproportionate by NT standards.

I don't feel I am "completing these self set actions". They are not routines I feel compelled to perform, they are simply basic precautions that I take (not always, but often). I touch a handrail on a stairs and I make a mental note to myself not to rub my eyes or nose. I'll either remember (and I suppose remembering takes some effort, so creates some stress), or I won't. If I forget, I get over it. It's more perhaps that I'm paying attention to everything (not just germs) at that same level of microscopic detail that is causing sensory overload and that causes stress and then I start spiralling off into hypervigilance, etc. 

Autismman said:

Are you habits mostly germ focused or more focused on how you think you appear to others?

I don't think I'm "germ focused" in any pathological way. I just think I'm just a bit more hygienic than the average person. It doesn't keep me awake at night. I don't have broken skin on my hands from excessive washing. I've even been known to obey the "10-second rule" and eat things off the floor (dry things, off my own floor).

I had a funny moment recently when I heard someone talking about the "5-second rule" and I thought, "OMG! I've been leaving it 5 seconds too long!" Yet, scientifically, I know that the number of seconds doesn't really matter: food on the floor is going to be contaminated immediately on impact. I make my judgement call and I go for it or I don't.

OTOH, when it comes to how I appear to others, there I probably have something pathological going on (AVPD?). I am cripplingly self-conscious and have been for as long as I can remember—well before starting school. Maybe that's some sort of side-effect of always feeling different from others because I'm Autistic: I always feel I'm in the spotlight and I really don't want to be there. Perhaps, though, it's just because I'm observing everything and overthinking everything, and assuming that everyone else is doing the same.

So you are trying to avoid further anxiety by completing these self set actions which are influenced by the advise give during Covid and if you are unable to complete these tasks or enough of them to feel safe your anxiety can climb? Are you habits mostly germ focused or more focused on how you think you appear to others?

I don't think I have OCD. I feel I have more of a learned response to situations where my social and communication differences have been perceived negatively. In other areas, I think I'm just paying a lot of attention to a lot of details, so I probably appear to be a bit "particular".

My "germophobia" is more an awareness and a practice than a fear or a compulsion. For example, I tend not to hold on to the handrail on an escalator, because I feel it is a probably a good place to pick up a virus like the common cold—or a bit of E. coli (ewww). If I do have to hold it (for balance), then I'll probably try to avoid touching my face or touching food until my hands have been washed. These are the sorts of things everyone was supposed to learn and practice during COVID. I was (and still am) a bit more diligent in this regard than the average person. I don't feel like it's controlling my life, or anything, though it is something that might contribute to my general stress level.

My general stress level can become a problem, though. If enough of these little things and others add up, I can become distinctly anxious, hypervigilant, hyperaware, etc. and that can spiral upwards quickly. So, my traits that might seem a little like OCD are not really OCD, but they might not be entirely benign either. On the other hand, I'm very very rarely sick.

It’s such a minefield of possibilities and wanted a definite answer is an important thing for me, like having a diagnosis I can accept fully without question. Some of the things you describe like ;

Damojo said:

these bad things will happen

- sounds very OCD also which some with autism also suffer with. I’ve had symptoms of this in my youth and some even today, I would check door handles till they broke, wipe light switches with my sleeve incase I left moisture on it and someone got a shock and even now I sometimes check that I have put the handbrake down on my car because a lot of these things are just using muscle memory so if I haven’t got a conscious memory of it I start to panic a bit.