Opinions: Do we believe the NHS is capable of helping autistic people with mental health problems?

Actually you know, I wonder if a more holistic system wouldn't be better? Mental health issues are seen as being seperate to physical health now and we all know how well thats working....not. I think a holistic system would make more sense as people would be seen as a whole person rather than a collection of parts, its alright being a part when it's something simple like a broken arm, but when its something long term and has impacts beyond getting over the acute phase things seem to fall apart. I dont' think doctors are being taken off cancer care to see people with mental health problems, they're completely different specialisms and a psychiatrist would have no idea how to treat cancer, but the oncologist might be more accomodating of mental health impacts.

I think one of the biggest problems is getting people out of hospital and either into nursing homes or to their own homes with proper care and equipment. Social care is underfunded, the people like my Dad had were wonderful, kind nad caring eveythiing you would want, but they were dreadfully underpaid and undertrained, they worked as long as it took them to see to their patients needs regardless of whether they were paid for that time. I think the care system needs to brought into the NHS and not left to cash strapped councils. I think a lot of councils could do with being more integrated too, social work, NHS, police, housing etc should be coordinated so as the best outcomes can be achieved for the individual. I think overall it would be cheaper too as there would be less paperwork, it would certainly be easier for the patient to not have to KEEP telling people the same things over and over.

Mental health wise I stared with a call to NHS doctors last year when it was all too much to carry on with, they offered me tablets (I refused) and CBT, no thought towards the underlying issues, after that I went private doctor and referral for diagnosis.

I was in NHS hospital last year myself and recently my daughter had meningitis so was in for a few weeks 

Observations from both occasions are -

Most of the staff are excellent and really care. 

It's a process disaster, most processes don't hand off to eachother, so nurses and doctors don't know what's happening with you, your medication, tests, anything,  unless they've been there to see it. Shift change and you're left explaining why your there to yet another bunch of people, who then battle the same processes for hours only to hand over to another team at the next shift change. We had to chase medication when it was four hours late various times and all sorts, had we not been there to chase them she'd have been left.

Some wards don't digitise your case details, so they rely l on paper like it's the 70s.

Wards move patients to clear beds not telling the receiving ward of their full story, my daughter wouldn't have been allowed on the surgical ward she was dumped on had they known she was infectious with shingles and meningitis , so when we told them , she has to  stay in a side room for two weeks and not use toilets or showers. We heard nurses on the phone begging for hours consultants to come, who didn't, patient then died and 15 minutes later they're having to carry on like it didn't happen, poor souls must all have PTSD.

Due to the lack of communication processes, diagnosis takes way too long. I had textbook symptoms but after a CT they said was precautionary and we're going to send me home , they rushed me to theatre , it was 4 days into my stay and my appendix was in a right state , meaning the op was a nightmare for the surgeon, along with me having a serious infection as result. I was released home in a right state , still with an infection 2 days after the op. 

No amount of money will fix seriously bad processes and organisational dysfunction. The staff are worked too hard and have to endure too much. It needs a massive shake up from the top.

yeah mental health could do with its own seperate service to physical health.

because there is a huge rise in people being aware of mental disorders now and everyone is going for diagnosis and this is destroying and overburdening the nhs and making it so they cant see to physical health like cancer and accidents... it needs seperation, physical and mental each need their own seperate service because the mental one is growing larger than it ever was now and its overburdening the physical, and maybe  people dont understand that until they are old enough to end up needing it to function but then cant ever be seen to for like... heart disease... or cancer or whatever... because they are overburdened by mental health issues... both needs to be seen to but if you have cancer youd be pretty miffed at having to wait on people who have mental issues that are not actively ending them like the cancer is.

We can throw as much money as we like at the NHS and other public bodies (which very often is mismanaged and wasted) but regardless of whether or not the NHS remains as it is and/or is privatised (which Labour seem to be proposing) the whole culture, attitude and mindset of the NHS needs to fundamentally and radically change, especially in relation to mental health, disability and hidden disability issues, perhaps even having a separate public body entirely for dealing with disability and mental health issues and rebranding existing NHS mental health facilities - too often, they cling to myths, misconceptions, outdated ideas and concepts when dealing with mental health and disability issues for fear of abandoning their core values and traditions, which makes them unwilling to embrace newer ways of looking at things and/or latest research - for example, there are outdated ideas in relation to autism such as “people with autism must never be allowed to live alone” or that “the only way to manage autism is via ultra strict discipline” or that “anything that an autistic person says must always be dismissed as nonsense and ignored because that’s just the autism talking” - we already know that the most forward looking research and ideas into autism best practice is coming from Australia so why is this not being implemented as basic in the NHS here in the U.K.? This is something that must be robustly challenged at every level 

“Just following orders” is not an excuse for committing crimes against humanity as many *** tried to do after WWII - one day, they will have to be brought to justice for their crimes 

To be fair, the demonising and hatred stoked against those of us who declined the mis-presented G/M injections was bloody terrifying and coming at us from all directions, not just a handful of angry people as a few of yrou health workers are... 

I know two wrongs don't make a right, but those people LED the campaign aginst those who had any other point of view than the official line! It's hard to feel sympathy.. 

I'm not so far gone, that I celebrate every "vaccine" caused public death, and I'm utterly stoked (very pleased) that the grim predictions that were floating about about pretty much ALL OF YOU DYING as a result of Mrna tech have started to prove fallacious, but I'm not lauding teh peoel who pushed and promoted it and actively suppressed dissenting points of view.

Nevertheless, this pandemic was defintely handled in a non-sensical way, across the board. 

I know, becuase I had several roles, with different vantage points and perspectives on the "plandemic of the unvaccinated.."

1. I was an unusually Informed member of the public when it comes to the practical side of microbiology. Pre-trained, had a coommand of the basics and situation as it was being reported some months before the "bog roll hunger games". G/F and normies at this point telling me to "stop obsessing" as I "prepped" (for want of a better word, perhaps "pre-adapted" would be more accurate VERY early in 2020.

2. Concerned conspiracy theorist/prepper. Ahead of the bogroll rush, G/F now a hell of a lot more "on-side". We have the "secret weapon" when it comes to corona virus (UV=c ) And if it gets really bad out there I've figured that I can shop for my neighbours and sterilise the packages on the way back, and if I wear my full gear I can uv sterilise myself at the end of my shift. Then finally the government reacts and locks you all in, and that "Pandemic of the unvaccinated" crap starts up. I already KNEW that you can't vaccinate against a coronavirus since I was SIX, I also had confirmation from a freindly microbiologist that my objections to taking the shot were reasonable.

3. Government worker reeporting directly to the cabinet office and carrying that letter that said I was a special member of the public, with rights that the rest of you had suspended. Not least, the right to work wthout taking a dodgy injection, and use the roads as I needed to. 

EVERYONE I knew who took the shots got covid anyway. I didn't.  So ergo I didn't give it to anyone. It was the zeitgeist at one point they were going to go door to door and try and force people like me to either be injected of go to a camp!

Who cares about the staggering level of alienation and psychological damage inflicted on people like me during that time? EH?

All that societal and in some cases personal abuse, just for taking care of myself and trying to "warn and inform" my family. 

Next up: Nuclear war. Currently on track for mid July - August, unless the process already underway derails, which I most fervently hope that it does. 

There'll be clear indications to tell me to make my move as we fall over the edge, and I'm increasingly confident I can "take a trip" at the right time, rather than "shelter in place". (I actually Prepped and Planned since the 80's for that one! - I though Bio-Attack much less likely....) 

Covid taught me that no-one will come with me, and there's a "nobility" in "facing the music" with ones loved ones, But I've always made it very clear that I inetend to die as a result of either natural causes or my own stupidity (smoking) and NOT at he whim of a politician or because no-one around me except a handful of us ever cared enough to protest aginst nuclear weapons...

BIG Governement and it's minions are NOT THERE to serve you.

If covid-19 didn't illuminate that clearly for people, and spark a desire for some limitation of the states power to persecute the individual "for non-compliance" then we are all probably doomed. ("Doomed I tell ye!!") .

If people don't want to insist  that our public servants, whether public or private, stop seeing us as cash cows and producing units, to be experimented on at whim, and lied to nearly ALL THE TIME in some way or another by unaccounatble officials then, this is what you get.

A very young "I'm a massive coke-head" prime minister involviing us in an armed conflict with a clearly detrmined and superior foe who has already issued the orders to defeat us quickly using a tiny part of it's huge panoply of forces up to and including, (under certain circumstances) parts of it's nuclear arsenal, which apparenlty our leaders including young Rishi have been informed of via diplomatic channels just so as no "mistake" occurs, but have neglected to run by the british public.

On the optimistic side we could still get this thing under control, by means of diplomacy and common sense, (and hanging or otherwise reducing, the power of many members of the conservative party) but it's all a bit of a white knuckle ride, right now! 

If I'd been your glorious leader, weilding utter power over you all, BRICS would have included Britain by now. Britain would be at the cutting edge of sustainable technolgies, recycling and repairing and conserving what you have would be national objectives, with the country placed on a "war footing" to develope self sustaining agriculture and clean manufacturing including energy solutions so we can become a net exporter to the world again. I'd stop the criminal justice system from "fining the poor" and seek alternatives to prison for many sentences. On the other hand, some crimes would earn the perpetrator public humiliation/ retribution, and or a sentance of servitude or reparations. Medicine would become "results" based, where quick cures are preffered to long profitable "treatments". Where cancer victims can access mecidicines similar to the "Brompton Cocktail" designed not only to decrease their pain but also to help them eke out a bit better quality of life. More of you would die at home, nursed by family rather than strangers, so that death is more "real" to everyone, and less like a video game that happens elsewhere in a sterile hospital.environment surrounded by strangers and (if you are lucky) uncomfortable friends and rellies.

BUT, I bet I'd still mess it up somehow!

Chiefly because it's too big a job for a single El-Magnifico such as I would be known, and it seems that except for isolated incidents I can't work well enough with others to get the job done either.  

You see, now it is all getting circular and out of hand !! - I'm going to bed.  Nite nite all.

Sorry....that should say "everything you say - BELOW" due to the change in default order on this NAS forum......that I have still not yet got used to !!

Agreed - everything you say above.

IrishInManchesterUK said:

during Covid, due to the brave work of those whose life’s work is exposing corruption in defence of the truth in all its forms and from multiple places, we clearly see how corrupt our governments around the world truly are 

Sadly the health workers who were following the official advice at the time and encouraging vaccines are now being demonised and hated on by the anti-vax brigade, just for doing their jobs.

The corruption seems to be pervading every aspect of society now it seems and there is no longer "good" or "bad", just "I'm right and you are all wrong".

I apreciate your kindness there Number, but every single time I engange with the NHS and it's minions, it's aggravating.

Those poor people you talk about have been riding high on the hog, sneering and looking down their noses at us mere mortals for bloody decades.

They get six years of learning "teh biggest flow-chart in teh world" followed by life on the "gravy train" with no performance metrics or targets to hit. (exceptr number of pateints per hour.  You have to both kill someone AND GET CAUGHT to actually get the sack... 

Plainly we need more doctors, but they are just too expensive. 

Still, A.I. will eventually replace their diagnostic function, and on the whole I expect it'll be able to out perform the humans Simply because it won't forget half it's training or fail to keep up with the latest data. Doctors rarely act like human beings, so the public will hardly notice any difference except for the improved efficiency.

We will still want to be touched by a human I suspect, but "human interfaces" for the A.I. will be ten a penny by then. 

The entire class of overly expensive and poorly perfoming doctors and consultants can be replaced by £250 worth of hardware from China (or another brics country, that does the electronics manufacture and design   that we used to do) and a lightly trained assistant...  

It will take years, because the entire system is utterly corrupt - during Covid, due to the brave work of those whose life’s work is exposing corruption in defence of the truth in all its forms and from multiple places, we clearly see how corrupt our governments around the world truly are 

Since the attitude you get with the NHS is kinda endemic with gov departments now, the best soluiton is to NOT NEED THEIR HELP....

Completely agree!

We all need to raise it with our MPs and media. 

It will take years 

Bronglais has had a bad rep for years, but I'm not sure you can take an incident from 1976 and project it onto 2024, although I'm sure it remains vivid in your memory.

But, yes Anglesey does seem to have fairly good services, especially when talking to family in England, my son has been diagnosed with COPD and nobodies even listened to his chest, he's had no in person contact with his GP's who are all locums, so there's no continuity of care. My GP couldn't believe it when I told her.

"belief web" is something I've definitely seen, good to see others must have seen it too.

There's so much pantomime in life I find it frustrating, it's like I'm in a circus but I'm the only one who sees all the clowns. (Probably a sixth sense quote joke in there somewhere!)

I have no faith at all. They seem to be decades behind in that respect.

TheCatWoman said:

how do you deal with years of abusive childhood in 6, 45 minute sessions? The NHS dosen't like that many theraputic interventions will take months or years to resolve, some clients will need time

For the NHS management they don't look at the care of the patient but the maths involved in that care - they realise that to give you the care needed to make you feel better and be a more ably functioning person would cost them thousands of pounds and even then you would still be autistic and likely to experience a relapse (eg meltdown) again possibly many times.

You become a big drain on their budget at this point so they have made a concious decision that it is better to offer the bare minimum for good PR than to offer you something that works.

The fact that we have much higher mortality rates (often at our own hands) is a good outcome for them - one less trouble patient who probably doesn't contribute tax/NI and will only consume services.

For these managers is it an obvious way to save money and since we are so poor at advocating for outselves as a group, there is unlikely to be much resistance.

This is the WHY it is this way and with government funding looking just as sketchy under Labour then I don't see it ever changing.

I think the best solution is for us to focus on looking after out own - work on charities (like NAS) and spread understanding of autism where we can. Let other autists know they are not alone and guide them to help where needed.

It won't work for all but it may work for enough to make a difference.

Really??

In 1976 I almost DIED in Corris waiting for someone to get their act together and tell us why i was projectile vomiting, then get me to somewhere less "hillbilly" where I could actually have my inflamed and about to burst appendix removed! (Bronglais General Hospital) by screaming and speeding ambulance. My dad (who was no slouch behind the wheel) said they went proper fast!

To be fair, it presented during saturday night and none of us thought it serious until I could no longer bend my body in the middle next morninng... We threw an emergency at a tiny cottage practice at 09:00 on sunday morning!

They did save my life I believe, so I cant actually complain reasonably, and that paraggraph is very much tongue in cheek, but it was the last time I felt actually safe and "looked after properly" in a hospital/NHS setting, it's been obviously declining inexorably since then.

Here today, the emrgency ambulance would have quoted 5 hours (TBF it actually turned up in 3.5) if the scene I witnessed the other day playing out where one of my more criminally inclined frends was taking time out from his busy day to help a neighbour he found lying in the street with a head wound...