Empathy is not Kindness

Empathy with an Other is a form connectedness or solidarity. It can seem like Telepathy or being on the "same wave-length" (like a seemingly invisible radio signal). We can learn experience mutually felt feelings of an Other through Art and Music. Go to a gallery or the opera and you can grow just a little in a sort of shared experience which can build Empathetic Relations.

But Empathy is actually just this unspoken sense of Relating With, somewhat implying you'll Respond as Expected. 

Empathy is not Sympathy or Compassion. And it can give a false sense of security/trust. In fact, a psychopath/sociopath can be incredibly empathetic and use your vulnerability against you. It is because they can sense it, and only because that, can someone manipulate another's motive/intent or the unspoken elements. 

What you choose to do with the ability to Relate with an other is about who you are as a human (and we can all grow or change in our being human). Sympathy is an act of graciousness, it takes far more effort than Compassion, which is simply guided by feelings, while Sympathy is a devoted or extra action from a sense of humanity or duty. Kant has much to say about the superiority of acting out of kindness when one understands it communicates something important even when we don't feel like it. While acting simply when we are moved is rather effortless, though still valid. 

We all need to feel we can Relate with an Other. But it's wrong to expect others to read my mind.

Be wary of this topic if it's brought up! Always inquire if the other party discussing is using Empathy in place of an Expected form of Kindness or in place of the ability to relate with and mind-read. For most non-Autistics, they are used to relating with the world around, to the degree they can feel like they have No Privacy! So it's shocking to them when they cannot 'get a read' on someone or 'feel' a Relating With. Meanwhile, Autistic individuals might be used to rarely relating with anyone, so it can seem strange to hear that many non-autistics easily feel like 'everyone else'.  We might hope to fit in and camouflage, while someone who's related too much with others might desperately need to feel unique. We watch them say things without effort which somehow produces a desirable response. Meanwhile, there is a great deal of effort I make to try to connect with an Other, and this shouldn't be just overlooked.

Either way. This is an important topic we need to keep reminding ourselves and others, is easily misunderstood. 

Happy New Year!

  • Abusers abuse. They play mind games, then portray themselves as victims.

    The abused then develop a sense that life is a Warzone. We're witnessing the manifestation of a society that tried to paper the cracks in public, only for the structure to collapse. 

  • I hear you! There's a lot here to think on.

    I guess I'm trying to address the way Empathy is used, or better, misused in NT society. In general, with those you barely know, our NTs exchange a kind of connexion in a sort of echo chamber with the same ideas even if not explicitly stating them - there's a code here which they recognise. And might echo back and forth for the sake of tribal togetherness regardless of topic. Responding as expected to a form of what appears like telepathy, and later, it won't matter what happened or what was actually said, but one remembers how they felt in that exchange. When Autistics fail to engage with these strange codes, our very morality and humanness is put into question, because it is only the NT with bad intent who will play the Rebel or will hijack the "code".

    But Au to Au (Autist)? Yes, we sense and understand each other quite well. We are on the same wavelength and generally never take offence with one another, as we can see the intention behind the communication. 

  • Empathy is not Sympathy or Compassion. And it can give a false sense of security/trust. In fact, a psychopath/sociopath can be incredibly empathetic and use your vulnerability against you. It is because they can sense it, and only because that, can someone manipulate another's motive/intent or the unspoken elements.

    Sadly I found the opposite to be be true, my abuser has traits of narcisism and sociopathy, that person could act out kindness like any other maniplulation, but it's just a tool to get what they want because if they knew how you'd feel at all they would have to admit you were human which would get in the way of their treating you like a play thing. The kind of empathy they feel is not the same kind of empathy I have, they can read body language and expressions like a book but they don't care about how you feel any more than they care about how a book feels "it's just a book". As far as I'm concerned meaningful empathy is not just recognising emotional cues, it's actually caring about them.
    Sorry I'm using the "royal you" in this relay of my experience to illustrate my point because if I had to keep typing it as me/my etc it would be retraumatising.

    I realise I'm a bit different to the stereotype because I'm also a "reader" (well sort of, and I'll explain), I know when Alan from Cinema Therapy is crying even before I see his face because I've already felt 1st and 2nd hand sadness, bittersweet, and wistfulness from his tone of voice in the voice over and I'm already crying along with him.
    I don't think it's a lack of empathy I have, same as it's not a lack of emotion, it is a dysregulation of processing the experience of, or expressing things like emotions and empathy, and when I say a dysregulation I mean things like it may come out upon retroactive reflection rather than as an immediate reaction like it does in Allistics. But I know Autistic people do feel, and feel very deeply, which this is why things like meltdowns happen. I think it's the reading emotion in another which is it's own skillset, it gets easiers with people who we live with daily, my other half does think I'm psychic because I feel a room go cold when he's having a bad day, but I can't read a stranger like that, no way. And it's not just observation/recognition that makes me go cold it's my own emotion of being unhappy that he's unhappy. And what ability to read I have goes out the window as my battery drain over the course of the day. Come some evenings or even whole days when I'm ill, I'm so worn out I'm cranky and inadvertantly "steamroller" over other peoples feelings without realising, because I've become unable to perceive any emotions beyond myself.
    And again it's not just as simple as that either because reading emotions isn't the same as expressing them.
    I try not to make posts about me but the easies way I've found to express that empathy is relational (compare and contrast against experiences because events are easier to put into words than feelings, especially if needing to conserve emotional energy). Less common but still happens on ocassion is someone will tell me about a bit of bad news they recieved, and I'll say something like "aw no" because I feel bad for them, but then about 5 mins after I said it realise with horror that it came out in a flat and uncaring tone... or worse maybe even readable as sarcastic or happy tone. It used to happen a lot more frequently, but the mask "toolkit" as I've got older is to tone-match by default, just sometimes that auto function doesn't kick in for whatever reason and I'm left mortified at the social fax pas. Not necesarilly for myself, I'm used to being misunderstood, but I never want to make people feel bad. Let alone worse.
    A reall kicker is I have it in my profile

    "I use emotive language best IRL. But when I use emotive language in text it can get - messy. So if my words sometimes read like an academic or Human Resourses email it's just because I'm trying to keep my meanings as clear and concise as possible."

    And that's not a lie, I just really try hard to only realy be on here when I'm in the "headspace" and have energy for it, otherwise it would be a nightmare trying to communicate in a text format.


    I don't think you are wrong per se' just that it's not a one-size fits all experience.

    I will find you a couple of short videos that made me realise why I had always felt ill at ease with the "lack of empathy" myth. As I actually went looking for answers last month on a similar matter. If you have a moment to watch them I'd be interested to hear what you think on them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq7UtT8guis
    Is interesting because I also had more difficulty as a child than I do now and I found at least in my case that the accumulation of experience to reference and relate from (again the compare and contrast) has helped, especially with a big vocabulary, I can express my own emotions really well, just how to apply that to others in ncesarrily every situation is where that bridge is still incomplete as a social skill set. So sometimes it falls less into raport and more into report territory.
    Like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lR2h7ybm48


    One of my steepest social learning curves was because the fall back on "I had a similar experience...." is not just a relational process but also partly a result from isolation in childhood and not wanting others to feel alone sometimes when I don't have a point of reference it's okay to just say "I'm sorry I can't imagine how difficult that must be for you". Because to not be able to fully understand isn't a failing of empathy, it IS enough just to recognise the other person is in pain and be there to listen to them. And that isn't even just plain recognition, it's not only the cognitive empathy, there is emotional empathy there  because there is a caring, a want to "be there for" someone. But It took until my late 20's to realise that. And interestingly I also see this lesson learned late it some allist folk too, which seems to show how complicated it is.
    And actually I see both (actually more than 2) kinds of empathy on this forum. A lot of relational cognitive empathy but also plenty of "I don't know what to say to make it better but I'm not gonna leave your post with no replies because I give a damn"s too.

    ______________

    And Happy New Year to you too Juniper! :D

  • That's pretty much it. Unfortunately. Although I'd simply call it a bit of Theatre as there exists a great deal of lack where manners are concerned.

    For a good read, Simon Griffin's Good Fv*king Manners is almost perfect. Add it spells out expectations and makes some worthwhile points about how to make life a little better for everyone :)

  • The implications of our 'failure' in that regard are quite chilling; it's potentially, effectively saying 'If you cannot or will not play your designated part in this elaborate show of manners, then you risk being cast out'.

  • There's more to it!  It's not always relating with an Other's Emotions, but their Expectations. For most non-autistics, there can be an order or rule of engagement which requires a call/response or a designated social echo. Basically, some kind of ritual in motion and if you don't respond to the expected Choreography, let's say, then there's a missing invisible tie-line of Empathy. When something is lost in translation, it's a matter of misreading the other; also Empathy. 

  • Oh wow. Fox - Rabbit analogy. That's a good one. Scary but potent.

  • Where I got it wrong was that I had always associated it with kindness and compassion.

    Same here. 

    'When the fox hears the rabbit scream, he comes running; but not to help...'

  • Thank you for this fascinating and interesting post .

    It seems my understanding of empathy was half right and half wrong. To me, empathy means the ability to put one's self in another person's shoes and relate to their emotions. Where I got it wrong was that I had always associated it with kindness and compassion.