Please help me understand self-loathing and low self-esteem

That's cool I think I will get a tattoo at some point.

I wouldn't want to take medication if I don't have to it would be a last resort.

Indeed, no two people are the same.

My work and my personal interests are intertwined. Artist, I do tattooing, sculpture, and occasionally painting.

Cool, I'm following up the ADHD just to find out. I like to know about things. I like things to be relatively definitive. And there's the possibility of meds, which I've been told could come in useful. Not that I'm seeking medication...

I think the difference between us is that I usually become angry and frustrated, rather than anxious and depressed. But it's still a negati

That’s just because we’re two different people.

if you don’t mind me asking, what is that you for for a living?

I've not been diagnosed ADHD. I was told that during my ASD assessments I also showed cardinal ADHD traits and should probably seek a diagnosis.

I was also told the same thing during my ASD assessment but I’m not sure if I’ll pursue a diagnosis but we’ll see.

I totally get it 

(apart from a the anxiety and depression, but that's more about me than anyone else)

I've not been diagnosed ADHD. I was told that during my ASD assessments I also showed cardinal ADHD traits and should probably seek a diagnosis.

My interest in things drops like a stone. I've wasted so much money as a result, not good,

Although I've been doing my job for 20yrs (self-employed) every day is different, with a new challenge, which keeps it relatively interesting. However, I can lose interest in a task within an hour of starting it, regardless of whether I was excited or not.

I've been fighting it my entire career, and have wanted to quit ever since I started. Most of my colleagues don't get it at all because they absolutely love what they do.

I think the difference between us is that I usually become angry and frustrated, rather than anxious and depressed. But it's still a negative response.

One thing that has helped me a little is to try to split my schedule into chunks, whether that be days, weeks, months. Then prioritise certain interests for those chunks. Allow as much freedom as possible, to make room for mood swings etc.

This is much easier to do if you are self-employed, but it still takes a very long time to achieve.

Maybe that is something worth thinking about. Rather than pursuing employment, try self employment. Try to create something that you have more control over. Something that fits with the ebb and flow of your interest and motivation.

It's hard work, but it can be done.

for me it was objective only, plus berating myeself if I did something wrong, I had to add, approving comments so it seems

Unless you think like me... there is no positive or negative, just objectivity, hahaha

But clearly, many people are struggling to create positive self talk...

Excellent insight, Cheers

Masking is a defence mechanism for me and the annoying thing is that I can't really control it it's almost more effort to drop to charade I don't have an ADHD diagnosis it's only been the last week or so I've been thinking about it because I came a cross some info online about it.

It's like you say I have two parts of me like an aspie side of order, control and absolute focus and then an ADHD side of impulsivity, distraction and typical ADHD "symptoms" and they are in a tug of war constantly.

And yes I do feel like I'm constantly being pulled in different directions by my own mind both involuntarily and voluntarily and again the same by the outside world, I struggle to stick to things for longer than 6 months to a year. I'll develop a deep, deep interest in something (will almost certainly invest money into it too) and then I will wake up one day just feeling completely bored by whatever that may be and then I kick my self for it but I just can't help it and the sad thing is too is that I can almost feel it coming on sometimes

I'm also so uncertain about my future as a result when it comes to work. I've never been satisfied with work for longer than a year and it's not like how people describe like how they love their new job but they get used to it and they just get on with it after that until/if (if they're lucky enough) they find something new. I get such an immense feeling of boredom, tediousness and monotony that I fall into depression and my anxiety goes through the roof and it turns me into a shell of man really.

It's not fun... at all.

exactly you need to talk to yorself in positive way, otherwise you reinforce bad thinking

I like it

So what you're saying, if I'm understanding it correctly, is it's the difference between positive and negative self talk. And many people get trapped in the negative self talk cycle.

I suppose, if one were to have negative experiences, and feel lost, or pessimistic, it would be very difficult to switch from negative self talk to positive self talk. Yes, I can see how that could happen.

That makes a lot of sense.

I have a lot of conversations in my head, usually analysing something or picking something apart. And I have internal discussions about whether I'm in a good mood or a bad mood. But I rarely, if ever, stray off into thoughts of self image or self worth. At least, I don't think I do.

I think that's why I've never understood how people view themselves so poorly, because it's simply not how I operate.

So thanks for that. That was helpful.

I have been there myself. It feels like mission impossible to break the loop. Until I read something one of so called successfull businessman said during interview answering the question what is the source of your success, he said: in the morning in front of the mirror I say ''Me, me and only me''. I find it difficult to even consider becoming an egoist, but it made think and I came with my own version of it.

Whenever I am in front of the mirror, I stop, look at myself and say: You are a person you can be proud of, and I like you''. haha talkign to own reflection. But it slowly started to work. Convince yourself somehow, that is what is required.

Thanks again.

You know, much of what you wrote is not too far from my own experiences, apart from the family thing. My parents shuffled off a long time ago and I rarely speak to my siblings (they have their own stuff to deal with anyway) So I only really have my partner of many years. Somehow, she tolerates me.

The social thing, I totally get it. I like being sociable, but even when I try I start getting bored really quickly. Whether it's a sense of not fitting in, or finding the conversations tedious, or just realising I have little in common with them, it happens every time.

As for identity, same thing. I have interests, maybe too many interests. But none of them are fascinating enough for me to chase long term (apart from my job because there are obvious practical reasons to keep doing that)  I literally have no idea what I want to do with my life and I'll be 50 in a few weeks.

All I've ever really wanted to do is exist. So I get the problem of not really having a solid idea of identity, at least not one based around the norms of work, achievement, ambition etc. But I think they are odd ways of identifying oneself anyway.

One difference is I don't think I'm very good at masking, but I don't try very hard.

Also, whether the diagnosis is disclosed or not shouldn't make a difference (in an ideal world), people should try to be understanding of each other, regardless.

We're on a very similar diagnosis journey, ASD--->ADHD.

Do you feel like you're being pulled in many directions at once?

Part of me wants routine and stability/order and definitions, the other part is impulsive, easily distracted and seeks stimulus, adventure, and chaos. I think these two conditions are somehow at odds with each other, making it incredibly difficult to make decisions, know what we want, and even know who/what we are.

I'm not even sure I think of my 'self' very often because I don't know what/who that is.

To be honest, I think we're quite similar in many ways, but we have just dealt with the internal conflict differently.

Thanks for the input...

Firstly... I don't mind you asking so don't worry about that.

In a way I am blaming myself but it essentially is because my own mind is against me most of the time. I do understand that people should be more understanding when it comes to people being on the spectrum but it's not something I go around telling everyone I ever meet I keep it close to the chest so to speak. It's a private thing for me.

As I said my own identity is one of the main things if not the main thing I struggle with I don't really know how to explain it very well but I guess I could say that I confuse myself a lot about what kind of person I am I never really know what I want from myself and from my life in a very general way but an example would be, I want to have friends, I want to be social but I also am so bad at "friends" and I also hate having to put up with people I just find it really hard even though I wish I didn't and some days I can go either way and be fine and others not.

Everyone around me in family know what they want from themselves and what they want from their lives and they know how to do it and that's that. They are all very open about what's going on with the they talk about struggles they have but it's never anything to do with themselves just things happening to them externally from work or friends etc. I know people could say "yeah but you never know what is happening in peoples head" and that's true but when it comes to my family members I know what they are like and I know what is going on in their lives.

I would like to be able to change my emotional and mental priorities but I really don't know what they would be because they change LITERALLY hourly and daily. It doesn't help either that I am extremely "good" at masking I do think if I told my mum for example how hard I struggle constantly she would have a melt down, she cares so much about me but she has been through so much throughout her life I don't want to put her through my struggles too.

And yes I have just started listening to the podcast now I'm 15 mins in now

I too would prefer to be more sociable. In fact, I can be quite sociable, but it usually leaves me worn out, or confused, and sometimes things go wrong and it doesn't work out at all.

I am quite happy be a loner, but I do have my concerns for older age. It is well known that a good social network is important for health and mental wellbeing as one moves into older age. Of course, it's important at any stage of life, but there are inevitabilities as we age and having a social group is supposed to be a good survival tool.

I hope I can sort it out before it's too late.

Do you think you are blaming yourself too much for the way you feel, which in turn creates a feedback loop?

Would trying to change mental or emotional priorities help at all?

Again, not an attack or a judgement. I'm honestly try to learn how this works.

There seems to be a lot of focus on being broken/faulty but viewed from an emotional level. Yes, we are all objectively dysfunctional in one way or another, but is that really a bad thing?

More importantly, is it really our fault?

If it is not really our fault, or is difficult to control, should we really be punishing ourselves over it? I don't think so.

Again, thanks for your reply. Every little bit helps me try to understand how other people think and feel, so that I might try to be less insensitive. I tend to assume everybody thinks like me.

As an aside, did you take a look at that adhd/focus video I posted about? 

It's got some really interesting info in it.

cheers.

Thanks for the insight.

Yes, I have negative thoughts too, and I can end up in negative feedback loops. But I still don't think I equate that with self worth or self image.

I think I view emotions as just thought processes that can be controlled or rationalised. Our emotions are not us, they are what happens to us, sometimes out of our control.

So:

Does that thing matter to me? No

Does it matter to me that other people think that thing is important? No

Yes, I do feel better when I succeed, and I do feel worse when I fail. But those feelings are fleeting.

Do you think a lot of it is to do with people taking responsibility for things that are not of their making?

I'm mean, taking personal responsibility for external factors that are completely out of our control. Sometimes bad things happen to us, but that doesn't mean it's our fault.

Of course, I can't guarantee that I'm always authentic because I tend not to think too much before I speak or act. So in a way, it is the real me at that point in time. It might not be what I had truly intended because I can't always understand what I'm trying to express in the first place.

I've often described myself as a good person, but not necessarily a nice one. I think it is because of my bluntness and emotional distance.

There have been numerous times when loved ones have required emotional support and I just stand there like a statue, staring. I have no idea how to process the information, and I just want it to stop.

Sometimes I've even told them that they won't get emotional support from me, I can't do it. If I can't be helpful, at least I can be honest.

I know I'm supposed to be able to help, I want to be able to help, but I just don't know how. I can't find it. I usually end up saying something, or doing something that is the opposite of what is needed.

For me general anxiety and depression, over stimulation, not being able to process interactions with people fast enough in the moment and just living a life of not being accepted by people.

The constant strange looks when I accidentally say something that is 'socially unacceptable' people telling me that I shouldn't have said this or done that. Rejection from from people of both sexes for reasons that I don't realise until days or weeks later when I realise what I did was 'wrong'.

It all made me so scared of my self in way because my social filter is "faulty" as much as plan scripts in my head when I'm in the moment my brain can't alway access what I need because I'm just trying so hard to be "normal" it causes a lasting impact on how I think about myself I struggle massively with my own identity and not knowing which "side" of me is the real me, I desperately want to be the social Butterly with friends to talk to, go out with, drink with, party with etc etc but at the same time I don't want to be that person because I don't know if that's what I really want and when I'm presented with that opportunity I find my self feeling so anxious about it that I could pass out. So as I said it causes a massive on how I think about myself and it makes me so confused about my self and I hate myself for that because I wish that I could just know what I want but I don't and I don't think I ever will and it affects every waking moment I have.

I don't like to lie, so even trying to empathise or comfort someone feels like I'm being a fraud.

If only people were more like this, Exist. 

How much more powerful empathy and comfort would be if everyone could be as authentic as you. It turns my stomach when I see or hear people pretending to care, or empathise.  Alas, we live in fake societies which encourage fake emotions of every kind. 

Once we get into the negative thinking, we can get stuck and obsessed with negativity. The glass is always half empty. We can always see that things should be done better. We feel responsible for all this negativity. The car isn’t as clean as it should be, my clothes aren’t as smart as they should be, I should have worked harder or I should have been at home more for the children’s welfare, I should have spent more time to improve fun and enjoyment rather than always working late….. it never ends

Thank you.

I had a similar experience. I was also born with a physical deformity, which I could hide most of the time, but it did make me self conscious, in regard to body-image.

I too, had a misanthropic dad. Pretty mean and unfriendly.  Always having a go for me back chatting, jiggling etc (slipper or rolled up newspaper)

In my childhood, I was quiet and fairly timid, keeping my head down apart from the occasional outburst.

But as I hit mid teens, and especially late teens, I switched. Once I was in the real world I went into combat mode.

As much as I like to brush it off, losing my mother, and a sibling, within months of each other, and just as I was  finishing school, absolutely slammed the shutters down on my already limited emotional capacity.

From then on, and for a very long time, I carried the void in me.

Maybe I used trauma and projected it onto the world, rather than letting it fall onto me...

I suppose, if I feel no emotion, I cannot be hurt.

It's difficult to say and I imagine it's different for everyone and multi-faceted. For me, I was undiagnosed at school and frequently made fun of for reasons I didn't understand, and my appearance was not the best, which leads to low self-image.

I also had a strict father, who would shout at me or hit me for something such as laughing as a child or saying anything wrong, or being too literal or talking back when I knew I was right, so I had to learn to repress myself, be quiet, never speak my mind, and effectively live in constant fear of people because I am always afraid of how they might react to something I do.

It becomes self-reinforcing because you can become hypersensitive to criticism. And then when I fail to be normal or do things that everybody else does, I criticise myself and come to the conclusion that I hate myself.