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Asperger Diagnosis

wishface

Hello, I am posting here as someone unemployed with problems that may or may not be on the autistic spectrum, specifically Aspergers. I have the chance to get a diagnosis next month, though getting there will be problematic. This has caused me to re-evaluate the purpose of this. Specifically is it worth it? What will getting a diagnosis (if at all) achieve? What doors does it open? As someone out of work I can’t see it enabling a successful ESA claim, and there’s no way I will get through the WCA.

The whole purpose of this isn’t to get a label; I know the issues I have so that means nothing to me alone. The point is really about money: about securing an inecom somehow. I find it difficult dealing with full time work (not that there is any) and having to deal with JSA is a nightmare. I am on the Work Programme but that is no help at all and they have admitted they have nothing to offer and no experience of dealing with mental health issues of any kind. So where does that leave me?

ESA is supposed to exist to help people like me that have some problems, but instead the WCA is used to keep the claimant count down. The end result is that you are either too ill to work (if you’re even found as such) or you are perfectly OK. If you fall inbetween you are ignored. That’s not what’s meant to happen. My GP supports that I should be on ESA, but is dead against writing a sick note. He doesn’t understand the benefits system, unsurprisingly, and really isn’t much help at all.

I don’t want to dismiss the appointment out of hand (and I doubt he’d be happy if I did), but the purpose of getting it is to enable support. So the question is what support does it enable?

  • wishface said:
    [quote]

    [quote][quote][/quote][/quote]

    [quote]With respect it's entirely the GP's choice to write sick notes. He isn't obliged to do so on the patient's say so alone.[/quote]

    [/quote]

    Not on the patient's say so, no. On the DWP's say so, yes. That's important bit - the DWP demanding that you to send in sick notes.

    Again, no. I appreciate your responses but GPs are not obliged to write sick notes at all if they don't feel the patient needs one. The idea is that when you claim ESA you are meant to be assessed ASAP (ie, the GP shouldn't need to keep writing notes) and it's taken out of their hands.

    But until you are assessed you need to send in a sick note every two weeks - I know - I had to too - ergo you, the patient, needs a sick note - ergo the GP has to write one whether he want's to or not - not doing so is a dereliction of his duty of care to you, his patient.

    That was never my experience when i did claim ESA. Perhaps it's changed, but the GP could dictate the duration of each sicknote (until of course the WCA is resolved) and would only need to send in a new note when that period ended. If he felt it necessary.

    Yeah, if you've got a good, supportive, GP they'll write a sick not for however long it's likely to take. But it sounded like you don't have a suppotive GP so I gave the two week period because that is, as I understand it, the shortest period before which the DWP will ask for another one, because the benefit, like all benefits, is paid fortnightly.

  • Scorpion0x17 said:

    [quote][quote][/quote][/quote]

    [quote]With respect it's entirely the GP's choice to write sick notes. He isn't obliged to do so on the patient's say so alone.[/quote]

    Not on the patient's say so, no. On the DWP's say so, yes. That's important bit - the DWP demanding that you to send in sick notes.

    Again, no. I appreciate your responses but GPs are not obliged to write sick notes at all if they don't feel the patient needs one. The idea is that when you claim ESA you are meant to be assessed ASAP (ie, the GP shouldn't need to keep writing notes) and it's taken out of their hands.

    But until you are assessed you need to send in a sick note every two weeks - I know - I had to too - ergo you, the patient, needs a sick note - ergo the GP has to write one whether he want's to or not - not doing so is a dereliction of his duty of care to you, his patient.

    That was never my experience when i did claim ESA. Perhaps it's changed, but the GP could dictate the duration of each sicknote (until of course the WCA is resolved) and would only need to send in a new note when that period ended. If he felt it necessary.

  • Im not on ESA or JSA, but I've had long spells on JSA.

    I think an Autism diagnosis would allow you now to take part in some of the Auschwitz style humiliation activities the JC will make you do.

    Secondly; I had a GP that completely denied I was ill when I was in agony. I had pretty nasty crippling pains in my hips, and the GP said I had to get on with it. I was in so much pain I changed GP's, got a referral to an MSK clinic who then referred me to a physio. It was tight hamstrings, done some stretches and problem solved. So maybe change GP's?

    I also know someone who was Bipolar but undiagnosed (diagnosed as mixed anxiety & depression), they could not claim DLA, they were knocked back twice. However after a diagnosis they got high rate care and low rate mobility. Symtoms got slightly better with diagnosis, and ironically they get more money. Not being diagnosed they had to suffer with; illness, wrong medication, poor healthcare, less money, lots of pressure to work when they were clearly too ill.

    Good luck, being on JSA is aweful and soul destroying. Worst time of my life, I went to Uni to get off it. Which accidentally ended up changing my life for the better. 

  • wishface said:
    [quote]

    [quote]With respect it's entirely the GP's choice to write sick notes. He isn't obliged to do so on the patient's say so alone.[/quote]

    [/quote]

    Not on the patient's say so, no. On the DWP's say so, yes. That's important bit - the DWP demanding that you to send in sick notes.

    Again, no. I appreciate your responses but GPs are not obliged to write sick notes at all if they don't feel the patient needs one. The idea is that when you claim ESA you are meant to be assessed ASAP (ie, the GP shouldn't need to keep writing notes) and it's taken out of their hands.

    But until you are assessed you need to send in a sick note every two weeks - I know - I had to too - ergo you, the patient, needs a sick note - ergo the GP has to write one whether he want's to or not - not doing so is a dereliction of his duty of care to you, his patient.

  • wishface said:
    With respect it's entirely the GP's choice to write sick notes. He isn't obliged to do so on the patient's say so alone.

    Not on the patient's say so, no. On the DWP's say so, yes. That's important bit - the DWP demanding that you send in sick notes.

  • Scorpion0x17 said:

    [quote]With respect it's entirely the GP's choice to write sick notes. He isn't obliged to do so on the patient's say so alone.[/quote]

    Not on the patient's say so, no. On the DWP's say so, yes. That's important bit - the DWP demanding that you to send in sick notes.

    Again, no. I appreciate your responses but GPs are not obliged to write sick notes at all if they don't feel the patient needs one. The idea is that when you claim ESA you are meant to be assessed ASAP (ie, the GP shouldn't need to keep writing notes) and it's taken out of their hands. That's part of the problem. But there is zero compulsion on the GP to continue to provide notes or to provide them at all. Complaining about this won't change anything except to affect your relationship with the GP which isn't to be taken lightly. So the bottom line is: if the GP doens't want to write a note there isn't much the patient can do.
  • With respect it's entirely the GP's choice to write sick notes. He isn't obliged to do so on the patient's say so alone. Believe me, I wish it were that simple, and reporting him won't help but cause trouble. It's also not as easy as just finding another GP, where I live we have problems getting GP coverage and I've seen enough of them about issues like this as it is. All that happens is they think you're having a laugh seeing different doctors to suit. Besides reproting them to the PCT isn't something to be done lightly - and it won't get a sick note! The PCT won't write one. If I could find help to get to the appointment it would be a lot simpler, but that's the problem. The lack of facilities means there are very few places that do this. Consequently it's located nowhere near where I live. I was the one that rang around to find the place that could do this (my GP didn't) and at the time I was told they could come to a local venue and see me, but now that isn't the case.

  • wishface said:
    Everyone seems to fail with zero points because that's how the system operates. If Aspergers is the only issue (I note you mention you also have Crohn's, which itself is a considerably serious condition) then I just don't see myself passing.

    The point is though, wishface, that I failed the WCA with zero points when I only had a diagnosis of Crohn's. By the time of the appeal I was sure I had Asperger's and mentioned it at the appeal (and I'm pretty sure the doctor on the appeal panel will have gone "yeah, he may not have a diagnosis yet, but he has many of the signs of having Asperger's") and I won the appeal. And since I've had the Asperger's diagnosis I've had a least one more WCA and passed with no problem! Plus they've since changed the assessment process and WCA to better take in to account the difficulties caused by Asperger and other Autistic Spectrum Disorders.

    In short, it's the Asperger's that has made the difference in my case, and I expect, given the recent changes to the process, I will find it even easier to pass this time round.

    You've got two choices:

    1. remain defeatest, do nothing to help yourself, and probably end up be given a harder and harder time by the JobCenter until, in the worst-case scenario, they finally take away some, if not all of your benefits, and you become homeless.

    2. get some help to go to the appointment to get a diagnosis, then, whatever you get diagnosed with, you get some help to make an ESA claim, and you get someone to go with you to the WCA assessement, possibly get some help making an appeal if you don't get onto ESA straight away, but, best-case scenario, you get onto ESA, you get the appropriate support for finding work, and your life get's better, not worse.

    It's entirely up to you - which do you want - crap stressful life, or not-so-crap not-so-stressful life?

    I don't dispute my GP's legal obligations but I just can't force him.

    Yes, you can! GP's are there to do what's right for you, not what's right for them, or anyone else. As I said before, if he's not doing his job, you report him to the PCT, and/or find yourself another GP! He's legally obliged to provide you with sick notes whilst you're making a valid ESA claim - that's the way the system works - his not knowing that that's the way the system works is not a reasonable reason for him not to do that.

  • Everyone seems to fail with zero points because that's how the system operates. If Aspergers is the only issue (I note you mention you also have Crohn's, which itself is a considerably serious condition) then I just don't see myself passing. The WCA doesn't take into account what doctors say, only the answers to the computer questions. They don't ask 'do you have aspergers?' of course. I don'tdispute my GP's legal obligations but I just can't force him. If he refuses, he refuses. That, sadly, is his right - and he's the diagnostician. I even saw a DWP Work Psychologist in January who mentioned I might have ADD and/or (she wasn't particularly clear and couldn't diagnose anything, it was all a bit bizarre) something called 'non verbal learning disorder'. What she couldn't do was actually provide a concrete diagnosis and support or endorse a sicknote/claim for ESA. Frankly I'm not sure what the point of her actually was, but there you go. It's entirely possible that ADD is the issue, not Aspergers, but there's no way to get a clear answer. She herself said that plenty of people with these conditions (she of course knew such a person, predictably) that do work. That of coruse doesn't explain just how, in this current climate, one is meant to find a job, nor how you negotiatte the problems you have with a potential employer. Finally, it would all be a moot point if the diagnosis was conducted somewhere locally. It isn't, and I do not travel well.

  • I failed the WCA with zero points too!

    It doesn't automatically mean you'll never ever get on ESA, it just means you have to be more persistent.

    Also the criteria have changed very recently (within the last year or so) specifically to take more account of Asperger's and other Autistic Spectrum Disorders!

    Go for the diagnostic assesment, and if you do get diagnosed as being on the spectrum, try again.

    And insist that your GP writes sick notes - he has a legal duty to do what's best for your health, both mental and physical, and if the DWP take away your benefits because he refuses to write sick notes when that's what's expected of him by the DWP when you're applying for ESA, then he has failed in that duty!

    If it comes to it, report him to your local health authority and change GPs!

  • Hello, thanks for the reply.

    My doctor won't write a sick note, so ESA is out of the question. Even if he did, there's no way i'd pass the WCA. I've already failed it once (zero points) a couple of years ago, which is why i've been on JSA ever since. There isn't any help either way. if my GP thought i'd be eligible for ESA he'd write a note now, i won't be any different if i get a diagnosis (if) and he knows that.

  • Hi wishface,

    I was in the same position as you just over 2 years ago, and I would highly recommend you do get a diagnosis.

    Firstly, regarding ESA, getting ESA isn't easy (if it were everyone would claim it), however it's not as hard as you think and having a formal diagnosis will make it significantly easier!

    When I first applied for ESA I didn't have an Asperger's diagnosis, just one for Crohn's (an inflamatory bowel disorder which actually causes me more problems than the Asperger's), and I was initially refused - I appealed, and during the time between the assesment and appeal got to the point where although I hadn't got the actual diagnosis, was pretty sure I had Asperger's, and talked about this at the Appeal.

    I won the Appeal!

    I had also applied for DLA when I applied for ESA and was point-blank refused it, however, after having won my ESA appeal, and getting my Asperger's diagnosis, I re-applied for DLA and got lowest rate on both the care and mobility components - and I don't think that would have happened without the Asperger's diagnosis.

    And, since the ESA appeal, I've had to re-complete the assesment questionaire/claim form and go for a 'medical' at least once and (thus far) had no problems (though I am currently going through that process again, so things could change).

    Now, there are two other things which I think will make things much easier for you - firstly, go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau for help with filling out the ESA and DLA claim forms, and secondly, at both the CAB appointment and when you go for the ESA medical, take someone (e.g. a parent, partner, or advocate) with you who understads you and the difficulties you have (you may want to also take someone with you when you go for the diagnosis).

    You may want to start the ESA and DLA claim process sooner rather than later, because it does take some time, but, as I said, you will find it easier once you have a formal diagnosis, so you may wish to pursue that first.

    Now, you say:

    wishface said:
    ESA is supposed to exist to help people like me that have some problems, but instead the WCA is used to keep the claimant count down. The end result is that you are either too ill to work (if you’re even found as such) or you are perfectly OK. If you fall inbetween you are ignored. That’s not what’s meant to happen.

    And that is exactly why the appeals process exists! Make the claim, at that point you'll be signed-off JSA (and, by the way, you should be aware that you can sign yourself off as 'sick', from JSA, without immediately needing a doctors note,for a limited period, so, at the right time, you may want to do that in order to give yourself some breathing space), and be put on the ESA assesment rate (which is exactly the same as what you get on JSA) - this will last until you've been assesed and a decision has been made, or upto 13 weeks (which ever is longer) - if the decision goes against you, and you appeal straight away, they legally must leave you on the ESA assesment rate (and not put you back on JSA) until the appeal has been heard - and, whether you win on appeal or at assesment, your money will be increased and that increase will be back-dated to the 13 week point if it's taken longer than that.

    OK, so, once you won your claim (whether at the assesment or through appeal) you'll then be placed into one of two groups - the first is the 'work related activity' group - which you'll be placed in if they deem that you could work with some additional support (most people get placed in this group), and you will have to go to appointments where they'll discuss what help you need in finding work (but don't worry - it's nothing like on JSA where they put you under pressure to find work no matter what) - the second is the 'support' group - which you'll go in if they deem you unfit for work. The support group gets slightly more money than the work group (but it's only about £6 per week (and, btw, the work group gets about £30 per week more than JSA)).

    Now, you also asked what doors will a formal diagnosis open, and sadly this is very dependant on where you live - some areas are fantastic - and you'll get access to help from social services, a personal budget (with which to employ help, etc), and the chance to get specialist councilling - some are worse than rubbish - and you'll basically get no additional support at all.

    Finally, regarding doctors and sick notes - yeah, some of them just don't understand that if you don't send a sick note in to the DWP you don't get money - I had the same problem - be persistent and take in any and all letters to that effect that you get from the DWP - it sounds like your GP is supportive (which is more than mine was) and so I would hope that once they understand the situation they will provide you with the notes to send to the DWP.

    I hope this has helped, and that things go smoothly for you.

    And, try to keep positive - the system can only beat you if you let it.