Identifying what is and what isn't autism

Mumofone stated one of two reasons her husband had been put in the lowest category in a performance review was:

"not noticing when someone wanted to move the conversation on to a new topic"

This is a common problem for people on the spectrum. So where is it mentioned in the NAS factsheets for employers?

Granted the factsheet mentions the uniqueness of individuals. But not enough is said that would lead employers to expect anything different from the specified issues. The nearest equivalent, under Social Interaction (being part of the triad) is "they may not notice if the person they are talking to is not interested in what they are saying".

An employer might suppose that all that needs be done about this is to point it out to a person on the spectrum when it happens. The way the triad symptoms are expressed, it must look to employers that these issues are easily resolved or rectified.

Under the factsheet for managing someone with autism there are three tips for avoiding misunderstandings by increasing awareness. But again it reiterates the same triad characteristics. They only cover "if the person seems aloof or uninterested" ... or often says the wrong thing, it is unintentional, "if the person tries to hard to fit in and irritates colleagues by seeming to 'muscle-in' on a conversation, be patient, and explain the boundaries if necessary".

That's a whole lot of new information. Still not related to moving the conversation on, but it gives a great deal more insight. So why isn't it in the "what is autism" factsheet?

On another page of the managing factsheet they quote a "person with autism": "I have difficulty picking up social cues, and difficulty knowing what to do when things go wrong". Where are social cues mentioned in the employer factsheet What is autism....?

Employers are placed in a tricky position here. If the information about what to expect from a person on the spectrum doesn't match what they actually see, what conclusions are they likely to reach?

NAS18906 said:

Standing your ground may work in some situations for some people. My experience is that this may not help in less rational organisations where reason and evidence count for less than hierarchical power.

The occupational health people should not be able to ignore the clear link between the communication difficulties and the autistic tendencies. What is the other issue that they are complaining about?

There are wide variations in the manifestations of autistic spectrum difficulties. This applies just as much in the workplace as anywhere else.

Compared to how people might experience difficulty, the definition given to employers is largely triad based - this this and this is characteristic of autistic spectrum. The nature of communication difficulty isn't well defined.

Therefore arguments about whether or not a person's difficulties are down to their autism is difficult, and certainly not a role in which employers, their HR departments or managers are sufficiently qualified. But to be honest assessor services just seem to parrot the triad.

People on the spectrum who get jobs often then find themselves constructively dismissed. An array of faults are found which had not been anticipated in the understanding of autism. The individual is forced to admit that their autism makes them unfit for the job and resign. Or work colleagues up the pressure until the individual on the spectrum quits. This keeps happening.

We don't know enough about autism and employment and what is needed to protect jobs for people on the spectrum.

But I don't think anyone can assert that there is a clear link between communication difficulties and autistic tendencies. Guidance to employers (eg NAS employer factsheet: what is autism etc - says things like: 

"People with autism typically find it difficult to develop social relationships, communicate with others...."

part 3 referring to the triad: "the person may interpret language in a literal way", "they may have formal or stilted language, or a monotonous tone of voice" "may not pick up on non-verbal communication such as gestures, facial expressions or tone of voice, or they may misinterpret them" ditto emotions, social rules, also mentions eye contact.

And on social interaction: "may find it difficult to form or sustain friendships", "Struggle with certain social situations and with making conversation", "may not notice if the person they are talking to is not interested" "may find it difficult to put themselves in other people's shoes"

I submit to NAS there's an awful lot more to it than this. But I can well understand an employer wondering whether these other difficulties are down to autism, given this is all they get from NAS!

I can relate to some of the above. I was labeled "inarticulate" at work, for many years and was deamed inadequate, mainly because of the bullying/hectoring demeanor of my line managers. I function better when happy and relaxed or at least confident. Stress and lack of confidence rob me of the ability to argue my corner. I was eventually moved to a happier environment, and my work improved to above expectations.

Standing your ground may work in some situations for some people. My experience is that this may not help in less rational organisations where reason and evidence count for less than hierarchical power.

The occupational health people should not be able to ignore the clear link between the communication difficulties and the autistic tendencies. What is the other issue that they are complaining about?

It doesn't sound very nice. Unfortunately the lack of any real understanding of autistic spectrum in the workplace means that available Triad-based guidelines don't do justice to all the problems faced.

The notion they suppose themselves able to determine what's down to autism and what isn't suggests they don't think autism is the issue. It doesn't tend to help much disclosing autism.

There are some books that might help. Malcolm Johnson's "Managing with Asperger Syndrome" (Jessica Kingsley Publishers 2005) is based on the author's experience in a sales management context. It isn't very clear if the author's autistic spectrum characteristics are that marked, and it does get too bogged down in autobiography. The Sheffield - Adults Speak out about Asperger Syndrome Series "Asperger Syndrome and Employment - Adults speak out about Asperger Syndrome" edited by the late Genevieve Edmonds and Luke Beardon (Jessica Kingsley Publishers 2008). there are 15 personal experience anecdotes, a better spread of experience, and commentary by the editors.

I survived work both in industry and academia and am now retired. It was immensely difficult with one issue after another. Mostly I managed, but certain issues regularly cropped up. I also got bullied from time to time.

I cannot deal with cliques, or people who expect undue deference. I really haven't a clue what they expect or are on about.

I manage communication on a "one size fits all basis" - that is I cannot really adapt much when speaking to more senior or more junior. I have often been accused on not speaking appropriately to my position.

I get into personality clashes, often from misunderstanding humour. I don't seem to judge things like social distance properly, being in people's faces, or crossing social gaps. I often talk "off the wall" going from almost mentally absent to right in on-the-ball.

I get confused and disorientated if a meeting is noisy and disorderly. Under stress I become less coherent at explaining things and repeat myself. I also fail to hear properly what is being said. That tended to lead to being made fun of.

While being good at detailed and painstaking work, I miss out certain aspects of the tasks completely, just a total inexplainable blank. Also there are certain things I'm mysteriously not good at.

I'd challenge any employers to work out how much of that is down to autism.

What I did find was that consistently my accusers of my being difficult etc. had no real case for me to answer. All I had to do was stand my ground and ask to see the evidence. Invariably the evidence turned out to have no substance whatsoever - hearsay, one off incidents overly emphasised, things from years back dug up again and again. Just some people didn't like working with me because I came over a bit strange occasionally. Unfortunately there are always people in workplaces who think its their duty to root out weakness.

If companies realised just how much time such people waste, and how much damage they do to productivity, we would all get along much better. Unfortunately they never got the retribution they lined up for me, so it was usually the same accusers back for another try.

I suspect therefor the line managers making an issue about your husband are out to make trouble, and all you have to do is ask to see their evidence.

I'm just going through the same process. :-(

If he isn't noticing when people want to move the conversation on then that is a direct manifestation of autism. Repeated bullying is another sign but it is a secondary consequence of his inability to negotiate with managers.

What do you mean by "borderline asperger's"?

What is his job at work? Is there a genuine need to be a good communicator or is that just part of the employers desired behaviours?