Help! Is my baby is showing signs of autism?

There is no autism 'epidemic'. In actual fact, studies have shown that the proportion of adults with autism is the same as that of children with autism. The reason why it appears that autism is becoming more common is because of increased awareness and consequently more diagnosis.

AgnoisedMummy: I am not intending to be disrespectful, but as ScorpianOx17 said of himself, I too have Aspergers, and my communication style can therefore be bluntly honest - I apologize in advance.

You seem to suggest that this is simply a disagreement between competing opinions, and that each opinion carries equal weight. This is not so. Science is about examining evidence and making logical inductions, based upon a particular method that has to be logically sound. When a particular premise has enough evidence to back it up, it becomes established Science - meaning that all Scientists worth their salt would respect the evidence. The opposite to Scientifically demonstrated truths is metaphysics, which rests upon mere speculative assertions, with no evidence to back the claims up.

If your beliefs affected no one but yourself, AgnoisedMummy, then I wouldn't care less about what you choose to believe.

But they do affect someone else, they affect your child.

Now, I'm not saying that I think you would knowingly do anything to harm your child, but that you may be unknowingly not giving him the best help you could, because the first step in providing that help is in truly understanding his (possible) condition and it's causes.

It's like in first aid, you're taught not to move someone who is unconcious unless they are in immediate danger (either because of where they are, or the position in which they are lying, say), because doing so may make any injuries worse. However, a paramedic has the knowledge to know when it is safe to move that person.

Arm yourself with knowledge, not with opinion.

Now, I can't direct you to the evidence that supports what I say for exactly the same reason I know you can not access that knowledge - I don't have access to PubMed and other academic research databases.

However, I would suggest you look up Dr Wakefield. Sorry, Andrew Wakefield, as he should now be known as he was struck off. He's the man that started the whole MMR/Autism thing. This wikipedia page should provide an interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

Also look up Ben Goldachre and what he has to say about Mr Wakefield, and the whole MMR/Autism saga.

You claim to have facts and proof to support your view but you don't share this evidence, instead you rely on the very vague idea of 'consensus'. There probably is consensus that most vaccines are safe for most people, but that is not the same as having proof that they are always safe for everyone (if it were, then massive damages would not have been awarded in the Italian and US courts).

Lack of evidence of harm is not the same as proof of safety. Scientists are as human as the rest of us, with differing opinions, biases and conflicting interests (when their funding comes from large pharmaceuticals, how can they be as neutral as we would hope). We should not expect everyone to agree whether they are lay people or scientists, on this or any other subject.

Mercury (one of the most toxic elements known to man) was injected into babies for decades without any formal studies being done to test it's safety. When it was eventually removed from the vaccination schedule in 2004 in the UK it was done very quietly indeed. Meanwhile neuro-developmental disorders have been rising at epidemic rates. I agree with you that there probably is a genetic component to all of these, including autism. But the rise is too fast to be down to genetics alone - we simply don't make babies fast enough to account for it. There are likely to be other contributing factors in the environment and I think a potential one of these is vaccinations. 

You do not agree with me about this and that is absolutely fine. I have no interest in forcing you to agree with me and yet you seem completely unable to tolerate that I don't share your view on this subject. Your need to insist that my opinion is invalid and and that your opposing view is fact, is really quite irrational. We will just have to agree to disagree on this.

AgnoisedMummy said:

I am simply saying not enough research has been done on the long term effects of vaccines to be certain there are none.

That's just it though, AgnoisedMummy. There has been enough research done for the scientific community as a whole to say with as much confidence as the scientific community ever says anything with, that there is no link between autism and vaccines. And note, it's not even just 'vaccines don't cause autism', it's 'there is no link at all'.

AgnoisedMummy said:

As far as I am aware there is no known cause of autism, so neither of us can say with certainty what the cause is, (or is not).

Whilst the precise mechanisms are not known, it is generally believed, and there is ever growing evidence for, again amongst the scientific community, that Autism is a genetic condition.

AgnoisedMummy said:

I feel we would do best to keep an open mind and we should all resist claiming our different opinions and experiences are objective truth.

Perhaps you only intended to reassure me by saying vaccines are perfectly safe? But I don't like to be told my opinions are wrong and that (because you disagree with them) they must necessarily be without foundation. This is more than blunt, it is disrespectful as well as ultimately unhelpful.

We are not claiming our opinions are objective truth, nor are we telling you that your opinions are wrong because we disagree with them. We are telling you the objective truth of science, and that your opinions are wrong because science disagrees with them.

And, please understand why I personally am telling you this - it's not to put you down, or condescend to you, it's because, as I stated before, in order to help your child you must understand the truth of his (possible) condition, not blame things that are not to blame, and not look for treatments, or cures, that are not to be found.

Autism is (most likely) a genetic condition, it is present from birth, and the developmental characteristics you describe in your original post are perfectly normal for a child with autism, whether they have been given vaccines or not.

And that is the point - what you have observed is characteristic of Autism and the developmental pathway of an Autistic child - no more needs to be said or looked for.

hi agonisedmum - gd news that you enjoyed some time together + he liked you copying him.  With someone so young it can be difficult knowing where to start, but entering his world usually strikes a chord.  I'm sure you'll know of many ways to do this which will help you to connect with each other + you can build on all that as he gets older.  bw

I tried a bit of signing with him today after reading your post. He's only one, so pictures don't mean a lot to him yet. He didn't copy me at all but I think he was interested. I think I had more success with copying some of his gestures - I think he loved it actually. He smiled anyway and seemed intrigued that he could make the 'big person' do stuff.

I sense from your 3 rather aggressive sounding posts in as many minutes, that you aren't really interested in more information but if I'm totally misreading the tone, then I've got a few books I'd recommend. What would you like more information on?

I came onto this forum asking for advice and support. I did not say vaccines cause autism in my post, I only made the observation that my son showed signs of regressing after receiving them. This was one detail of the story and not meant to open a long discussion about vaccine safety.

I am not saying vaccines are THE cause of autism. I am simply saying not enough research has been done on the long term effects of vaccines to be certain there are none. As far as I am aware there is no known cause of autism, so neither of us can say with certainty what the cause is, (or is not). I feel we would do best to keep an open mind and we should all resist claiming our different opinions and experiences are objective truth.

Perhaps you only intended to reassure me by saying vaccines are perfectly safe? But I don't like to be told my opinions are wrong and that (because you disagree with them) they must necessarily be without foundation. This is more than blunt, it is disrespectful as well as ultimately unhelpful.

AgnoisedMummy: ''Opinion is not proof of anything'' - so is it opinion that the earth is not flat? Is it an opinion that apples fall from trees?

And where did you get your opinion (i.e. non fact) from  AgnoisedMummy?

The same type of objective Science that showed smoking is bad for you has been used to show that Vaccines do not cause autism. Incidentally, there are still people who deny that smoking is bad for you, just as there are still people who deny that vaccines do not cause autism.

There is a Scientific consensus that vaccines do not cause autism, just as there is a Scientific consensus that the Earth is not flat and that the planets go round the Earth and not vice versa. There is a Scientific Consensus that Evolution is a fact, and there is a Scientific Consensus that smoking is bad for you.

hi - I'm not going to join in the vaccine debate.  There are posts on this site + other sites which you can look at relating to vaccines/autism, if you haven't already.  However, you are obviously concerned about your child's development + are asking how you can help if your child ultimately is diagnosed with autism.  Again there is lots of info on the home page + posts which will help.  My son enjoyed physical activities such as going to playparks, roller skating, ice skating, swimming.  If you're that way inclined yourself then you can obviously join in.  You can then widen things out by teaching him the words for the equipment he's using and/or you can use flash cards or similar.  You can have a regular routine for him so he doesn't get any sudden surprises which may unsettle him.  You can use pictures again for this + he can learn the words that go with the pictures.  If he enjoys his food you can show him the labels on various items, inc saying the words that go with them + then he can see you cooking them for him to eat.  This will help him with sequencing of events.  This is something I found my son had trouble with - following a sequence of events thru from start to finish.  If your son turns out to have trouble with sequencing then you can use a fav dvd of his to show him.  You have to pause every second or so, then he can build up the picture at his own speed.  If you already do this then apologies!  Whatever you believe or don't believe about the vaccine/autism theories, in the end your child will or won't be autistic.  The point is that if he is then as you say, your most important job is to help him in every possible way.  You will be the most important person in his life for many yrs, if not for always.  Just like the mother of any child wd be.   You will be his educator + protector, just as you wd be for any child of your own.  If he is autistic then over time you will adjust at your own rate as your understanding + empathy grows. So it's early days....take them 1 day at a time.

AgnoisedMummy said:

Having looked at the level of aluminium in the vaccines he received, I found this was well above the recommended daily safety limits.

Says who?

Are you an analytical chemist?

Have you obtained a sample of the actual dose of vaccine given to your child and analysed it, or had it analysed, for aluminium levels?

Or are you basing your opinions on information found on websites that you can not verify to be true?

You say you've looked for research on whether vaccines contribute to autism and found only comprised or otherwise questionable research.

Do you have access to pubmed, or other academic research databases?

Or are you basing your opinions on information found on websites that you can not verify to be true?

No one is saying that the observations you report about your child's regression are not true.

But have you researched the typical development of autistic traits in children whether they have been given vaccines or not?

Or are you basing your opinions on information found on websites that you can not verify to be true?

You say you seek advice on how to best support your child.

But do you not think that the first step in doing that is to understand the truth of your child's possible condition?

I suggest you read the NAS position on the supposed link between vaccines and autism.

And ask yourself, what do the NAS have to gain from holding that position?

We all, parent or not, can understand the position you find yourself in - and the wish to find answers - but don't let your agony cloud your judgement, and please understand that whilst we may say things you don't want hear, we say them because they will help you to help you son.

Only by truly understanding his possible condition and it's true causes can you truly help him.

It is clear, by the very fact that you are asking these questions that you have a great deal of love for him, but don't let that love blind you to the truth.

And, I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I have Asperger's, that's one of the things we do.

And, incidentaly, I'm 39, too old to have had the MMR jab.

I am rather tired of opinions being stated as facts, especially borrowed opinions. No one knows whether vaccines contribute to autism. If you have proof, then please do share your sources with us. When I went looking, I could not even find adequate studies to prove vaccines are safe. Instead I found a lot of highly compromised research (ie funded by vaccine manufacturers who are obviously not objective) or else hopelessly inadequate research (ie. relying on passive reporting from GPs etc, using small numbers of children over very short periods of time). In fact, I could not find any research on using double doses of MMR at all (which were brought in after they realised that one dose was not giving lasting protection).

Last year an Italian judge awarded a family compensation for the MMR causing autism in their son and in the US the Polling case was won on vaccines causing autism in their daughter as well. I do realise that legal evidence works on the balance of probabilities, which is not the same as proof in a scientific study but it is certainly a reason to keep an open mind. 

I'm not telling you what opinion you should have but I will resist accepting your opinions as facts. I know my child in a deep, intimate way that no one else can and it is not for you to tell me that whether I am right or wrong in my observation that he began to regress when given the vaccines.

Having looked at the level of aluminium in the vaccines he received, I found this was well above the recommended daily safety limits. Aluminium is highly toxic, especially to a developing brain and it is hard to say what the long term effects of this exposure will be. I am not saying I know autism is caused by vaccines but I do believe for more susceptible children they can be very damaging and if my son is on the spectrum, this may turn out to be a contributing factor. Let's not forget how long it was before the evidence that smoking was bad for you became so overwhelming that no one could ignore it any more.

I'm not looking for a diagnosis on this forum, it's much too early for that and I would certainly seek professional advice later on, if I still felt it was needed. What I am asking other parents is if these might be early signs and if anyone has any advice about how best to support my child, as he might need different types of games and different ways of interacting to get the best out of him and make him feel most secure.

Firstly, no one on this forum can diagnose your child. You will have to take him for professional assesment to answer the question of whether he is on the Autistic Spectrum or not.

Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, if your son is on the Spectrum, do not blame any vaccintions he may have had. Lots of scientific research has been done into the purported link between vaccines and Autism and they have found absolutely no good evidence for any kind of causal link. Autism is a developmental conditional and this can mean that a childs development can appear perfectly normal until they reach a certain developmental milestone (and the exact milestone varies from child to child) at which point they may suddenly start to regress and develop more and more autistic traits. This does not, however, mean that the child was not autistic before that point - they were, you are born with autism and it never goes away - rather that they had no obvious autistic traits - someone trained in spotting autism in very young babies would be able to see subtle telltale hints, however. The opposite can also happen, by the way, and as the child continues to develop, their autistic traits can lessen, and even appear to completely vanish - they, however, are still autistic - as I said before, you are born with it and it does not go away.

I agree. Vaccines do not cause autism.