Aspergers, Friendships and Depression

Similar kind of thing.  Either that, or people say that phrase that always gets my back up: Go with the flow.

I had a t-shirt made up with the slogan 'If you go with the flow, you'll end up on the rocks!'

With me sometimes, don’t know about you, if I’m over-analysing something not only do I become “fixated” on it, but if people ask me what’s wrong and I tell them, they then reply with get over it most of the time. Telling me to “get over it” really doesn’t help at all as it’s just the way I think and regardless of all the techniques I’ve learnt there will still be days when over analysis happens 

Quite the opposite.  It's always been a bit of a down-at-heel town.  A large working-class population.  Those 'up the hill' have a bit more money.  Lots of self-made people.  It's very conservative (big and small 'c'), with a lot of support for Ukip.  No... in some ways it's more like a form of Royston Vasey from 'The League of Gentlemen'.  Very provincial and parochial.  I got a stern telling off early the other Sunday morning for cycling (slowly) down a short seafront path that has a 'No Cycling' sign at the head.  Fair enough, if it was crowded.  But there was no one else about at all - except this old geezer walking along the top road, about 30 yards from me.  We argued the toss for a moment.  I wouldn't have minded if he'd been polite, but he was very 'blustering brigadier' from the off. In the end, he said 'It doesn't matter if there's no one about.  'No Cycling' means just that.  So you're in the wrong.'

Well, technically yes... but for heaven's sake!

Is it a very bourgeois place? 

There was a town I lived in I grew to hate, as so many people there were up themselves. I dare say they saw me as needy, which is about as insulting as it gets. I have an artist friend who experienced similar things. He had a breakdown and realised afterwards he was not middle class as he once saw himself, but working class. He was academicslly successful but in the eyes of this true bourgeois around him, the oik still betrayed itself on the way he used speech.

As with me. And my long-distance partner.

I moved to a city that was an old car town and I never felt there the way all these nice roght-on people made me feel in that other town. Snobs.

It's like over-analysis, too.  I find it very hard to make decisions.  Always have.  I once spent over 6 months trying to decide which of two cameras to buy.  I'd spend whole evenings and weekends poring over reviews, tech specs, etc.  It became an obsession.  My wife at the time said 'Just make a decision and go with it.'  But what if it was the wrong decision?  Whenever I've done anything at all on impulse, it's usually backfired on me in some way.  But 6 months to decide between two very similar cameras?

I see what you mean. Yes, I probably am overthinking, but unfortunately as you say that is what we do. I have done it for years as well and still do sometimes. 

I've often wondered about that, but I can't think it's the case.  It was very plainly a platonic friendship.  I don't find her attractive in that sense, and having lost her husband so tragically... could she really be thinking that way so soon afterwards? 

The mood generally in that supermarket is very friendly.  I've noticed, too, that she's still very chatty and open with other people.  I simply don't go to her checkout any more.  It's easier that way.

I could add - though I'm not sure how relevant it is - that when we first moved to this area in 1978, we didn't like it.  It sounds like a generalisation, but we found the people decidedly 'odd' compared to our experiences in London and Devon.  We'd find people who would speak to us one day, then shun us the next.  Over the years, I've spoken to many other 'incomers' who say the same.  'The place is alright - it's just the people!'  Maybe my erstwhile 'friend' is one such.

That is strange. Sometimes people seem to do that if it is work. They get totally into work mode. The boss may have something to do with it too, discouraging fraternising with customers. Could she have misread the situation and feared there was a romantic thing happening even if there wasn't?

This adolescence thing seems to extend more and more into adulthood.  I work with people in their 30s and 40s who are essentially 'kidults' in the way they behave with one another.  The petty sniping, the jostling for positions in the 'gang', etc.  Very childish.  I may be emotionally immature in many ways, but not that way.

You are overthinking.  But isn't overthinking what we do?  I do it all the time, and have done for years.  I get a reaction from someone - a gruff or unexpected response to something I've said or done, maybe - and automatically I'm putting myself in the spotlight of self-analysis.  'What have I said?  What have I done?'  One of the useful things I picked up from doing CBT is to try not to pin the blame always on myself, but to consider the other reasons people may have for their behaviour.  It might be nothing to do with me at all.  So I look for evidence to back up my theory that it's my fault, and often there isn't any.  I'm worrying over nothing - or, at least, very little.

A problem that I have - and that many of we Aspies have, probably - is two-fold.  I often struggled to make friends in my teens and 20s, so I tended to be a people-pleaser to try to get people liking me.  I would often go out of my way in this respect.  Which meant I sometimes got let down, because I was trying to please the wrong people.  The other thing is, I found it difficult to understand another person's point of view, or how they were feeling about something.  So I always naturally interpreted some negativity or odd behaviour towards me as being somehow my fault - whereas it might just have been that they were having a bad day.  And I never really thought to ask them what kind of day they were having!

I spite of having a few more insights now, I still get puzzled by other people's behaviour - and think that somehow I'm at fault.  A few years ago, I worked in a local supermarket.  I was quite friendly with one of the women who worked on the checkouts.  She was about my age, married, very kind and chatty.  We often used to pass the time.  She knew my mother was unwell, and she'd often ask about her.  She was liked by a lot of people, and seemed very genuine and caring.  When I gave up work to care for mum in her final months, I'd often go into the supermarket, and if I saw this woman she'd always ask how things were going.  She'd lost her husband quite suddenly earlier that year, which had been a dreadful blow, but getting back to work had helped her.  She used to give me a lot of encouragement about the fact that I was doing a great job in caring, and I'd never regret being there for mum.  When mum finally passed away, too, she was one of the first to say 'If ever you need anything, just say.'  The kind of things many people say at such a time, of course.  But she was genuine about it.  One day, I went to her to ask for the number of a medium she knew.  She told me this person had helped her tremendously when her husband had died, and the medium was a personal friend of hers.  I saw that medium, and she was helpful.  Afterwards, my friend asked me how it had gone, and I told her.  We chatted quite a bit about it.  We remained friendly.  Whenever I went in there for shopping and saw her, she would ask how I was coping, etc.  Still friendly.  And then, one day, I went in there and said hello to her in passing her checkout - and she looked up and half-smiled at me and gave a muted response.  I thought it was odd, but said nothing.  Then it happened again.  I went in and she came to check a code on my self-service till, and didn't really speak.  After that, whenever I was in there, she didn't seem to acknowledge me.  Then, about a month ago, I was walking in the High Street and saw her walking towards me, about fifty yards off.  As I got closer, she stepped out and crossed the street without looking my way.  When I was level with her, I called across 'Hello, J-'.  She turned quickly, with a blank face (she'd clearly seen me coming, which was why she'd crossed) and said 'I'm sorry... I can't stop.'  And that was it.  Since then, she still doesn't acknowledge me in the supermarket.  I've no idea what it's all about.  I really can't fathom it.  I've thought about it time and time again.  It makes no sense.  But I've decided it's not me.  It can't be.  I've neither said nor done anything to her, or against her.  Very strange.  But I can't expend any more psychic energy on it.  Maybe she's having a delayed reaction to her husband's death, and is just shutting off from people.  Who knows?

Huh. I think too many undergrads are still not much removed from school children, these insults are the kind of thing insecure adolescents might say because they are so worried about fitting into the chimpanzee dominance thing themselves. 

Yes, true. I’ve just had many friends who when they hear/find out from someone else that I have Aspergers  they walk away from me. Whilst these people haven’t “walked away” from me as such, one of them doesn’t talk to me as much as he does the other two (they do all live in the same area) but because of my Aspergers I can’t work out whether it’s a reflection on me and him sending a non verbal signal to me which says “I prefer the other two and don’t like you” or just that because we are in different areas that it’s easier for him to talk to them. I’m not sure whether it’s personal and a reflection on me or not. I struggle with reading non verbal signals sometimes and quite often end up reading them the wrong way. Throughout my life, and even at uni, where my parents said most people are more understanding and that I’d meet my friends for life there, most people have been so judgemental towards me and have called me weird or a loser which has led to me losing confidence 

You mean friends you thought understood you because they knew of your diagnosis?

I would hope a true friend would be a little less superficial or two-faced and perhaps these two were. I was also going to say the friend you did not respond to your text about beeping may simply have had a doh moment and not known how to respond to your message. 

Thank you very much. It’s good to hear that you think I’m doing well. I’m sorry to hear about your experiences at uni. My first year was a bit like that too. 

I’m not sure having the diagnosis does help in certain ways because whilst it helped to explain why I think like I do, it usually results in people who I think are my friends walking away from me even though I just can’t see what I’ve done wrong. 

You seem to be doing very well, I know some people tend to ghost as a way to snub, but maybe here you need to give the benefit of the doubt.

By my last year at uni I was in quite a state. I had been reading a lot of modern esoteric gobbledygook and started to get very hung up about what was the mystic true self, along with the fear that other aspects of my self might really be  false and would have to become obliterated in order to grow into a 'true' self that was nevertheless  unpleasant to other people. I had lost most of my friends by this stage, one I had confided in had attacked me using this in quite cruel ways, others had started to shower contempt in other ways on me. I had got sick of being hit on by creepy males who thought they could get me into bed because I seemed so isolated and lonely. One well-meaning friend had told me I appeared to have 'difficulty relating' and had lectured me to be more conventional in dress and not to wear a hat. And to look at people when conversing with them. By the last year I could hardly sleep at all and lost a lot of weight and had constant gut for, not realising yet that glutens might be a problem. I felt such a failure. There was no knowledge of spectrum things at the time though probably at the time I would not have been happy about being labelled that way. 

I do wonder whether having this diagnosis does in fact arm you against the enemy more, or whether any advantages would be offset by having g to deal with condescension or stigma. At school I certainly felt stigmatised as a crazy one. 

I can certainly relate to depression. Have you spoken to your GP about it?

I've posted this before:

• Feeling Good / Feeling Good Handbook by David Burns (CBT-based)
• Overcoming Depression by Paul Gilbert (also CBT)
• https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/peer-support-directory/ (self-help groups)
• https://friendsinneed.org.uk/ (online self-help group and meetups)

Also I suppose you may want to investigate:

• student support
• local IAPT (Improving Access to Psychological Therapies, may take self-referrals or have to go via GP)
• GP may know local affordable counselling services
• local autism groups (check the NAS directory)

Ok, glad to hear it. 

Although I didn’t talk much about depression I am very depressed and do feel like I need help. Do you know of any good places? 

Sounds definitely positive to me.

I think some people think about 'years to come' and some don't. Some may feel uncomfortable making a commitment to be a friend, especially after a short time - but you might find you are friends for many years anyway. I suppose my philosophy is just behave well and kindly to people and accept whatever happens.

I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I can do. The other day I sent them all a text on our group chat saying how I was very pleased to have met them, that it means a lot to me to have three friends who like and appreciate me for who I am, and that they are three of my closest friends for life, and that I hope we remain friends for many years to come”. 

Their replies were: that’s nice of you, thanks at least someone likes me, and one of the guys was being sarcastic about another group member. I am not sure whether those replies are a positive or not as they haven’t said to me that they hope we remain friends for many years and that they consider me a good friend. 

I'd agree you're overthinking. This sounds just like the kind of situation (someone hasn't replied) that they explain in cognitive therapy. What evidence do you have for or against your fears? What would be a rational, compassionate response to your worry?

NAS38298 said:

I am worried that they will think I’m weird because of how I put that up there even though it is just an idea.

In my opinion, it is much better to be weird and sincere than to not say anything at all. Sometimes those are the only choices, and if no one puts ideas out there for meeting up, nothing will happen. Maybe the fact it's a year away and it's 'just' a botanic garden means people won't want to commit to it yet, but it may spark other social ideas too. (I mean to go to Westonbirt but have never been.)

By the way, in my experience, the only way to get over the 'weird' thing is to do it anyway so (a) you can learn from people's reactions whether it was a good idea or not; (b) you can learn alternatives and social skills and so appear less 'weird'; (c) other people can learn to accept you; (d) you get less worried about being 'weird' and see it as expressing yourself instead.

NAS38298 said:

The compliments were pleasure to know you, the fact you do what you do with AS everyday means to us three that your an exceptional individual, and as far as we are concerned having you in our group and as a friend makes being at uni a lot better. 

That's great. It shows there are good people out there. Maybe the friendship will continue, maybe not. Some of my uni friends I still have over 20 years later, some I haven't.

How often do you meet up? I don't know what other people think, but is there a way to express the fact that you value knowing them and value your friendship, as they did to you? You would do that in your own style, but I suppose standard ways include texts, postcards, meals and little presents.