Advice needed re adjustments at work

I've heard that for the assessment process it is usually requested that a parent or someone who knew you as a child attend. This wouldn't be possible for me, so is this going to cause a problem? 

If I get diagnosed, would I be eligible for any benefits? 

I've heard of an "access to work" scheme - if I become unemployed while I still don't have a "formal"  diagnosis, would they be able to help me with finding part time work? 

I'm also wondering if anyone else has successfully negotiated adjustments in their work place, and if so what were they and how did they help? 

Thanks Martiantom and Sox for your advice. 

The company is very small so we don't have a union. There is private health care though. 

With regards to the referral, it's not really what I want - I'm still concerned that I might be considered as not having enough of a problem to be diagnosed as Autistic, which would be very difficult for me to deal with, but if I am also concerned about access to benefits if I do become unemployed. 

Hi again - thanks everyone for your advice. 

Curious, your advice was very useful but I couldn't link to the booklet - which website is it on?

Random - thanks for the information on NHS diagnosis and PIP 

I had the meeting today. They didn't offer me reduced hours. So I've started applying for part time jobs - although these are few in my field. Fingers crossed..

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and ideas. 

I had to get things under my control, and I didn't want to get ill, so I gave my notice and I leave in 4 weeks. I feel relieved. 

Thanks Random, I was thinking that might be the best way to go but it's good to get another person's input. Sometimes I get confused about different options and fixate on the wrong details, when really I know what is the best result when I discuss it and get it sorted in my head.  Cheers.

It's difficult to answer, because it depends who is interviewing you. I personally would mention the systematic, analytical thinking and creative mind in the interview, but would not attribute it to aspergers.

The other more detailed aspects, I would try and answer with simple questions "Is there any travelling involved ?" 

"Do you have air conditioning in the office ?" ... "It gets cold sometimes with the air conditioning in my previous job"

"I use email a lot, I find it is very efficient and effictive, less disruptive, so I can focus on getting my work done."

Random

I have been offered an interview next week for a part time job. It's a contract position until March, but at a large public sector organisation where it might hopefully lead to a more permanent role. 

I have been put forward by an agency, who asked me when I applied if I had a disability. I answered no because I don't yet have a formal diagnosis.

Being an Aspie makes me good at what I do (accounts work) because of my highly systematic, analytical thinking and attention to detail. I also have a creative mind and often see solutions others don't. But some aspects of office life are uncomfortable for me. I don't like social events or being pressurised to attend them. I can't "hot desk" and get very anxious if asked to travel to a different place for meetings or training. I'm extremely sensitive to cold and draughts so get distracted if air conditioning is set too cold or I have to sit next to an open window. I'm not comfortable having to do a lot of communicating by telephone (much prefer email!) 

So should I mention anything about this at an interview? 

Wow PF, I am sorry to hear about your employer's response, but that move took some courage and I admire your determination to keep in control of your situation. Some of the attitude of your employer resonates with my relationship with my previous employer.

There were 3 times, I felt things so bad I should just give my notice in, without a job lined up. However l was planning to emmigrate to New Zealand, and that was my chosen exit route, but just had to bide my time.

I was made redundant in the end, though a problem with a line manager who just had it in for me, I had done everything he asked, to an excellent standard. 

Like Paul, I found a much better employer within 2 months. Having said that my changes for work are not going to plan, even with an official diagnosis.

Random

Hmmm...that's drastic and probably what I would have done. Not sure it's the right course but it does have the benefit of certainty.

It's very possible that good comes of this as you can now think clearly in finding a new job, you should get a good refereance, and the new job could be better suited to your needs.

In my previous job I had been there about a year and a half and I was losing the will to live (not suicidal, just very, very bored) and my work productivity fell like a stone. They let me go, in a kind way by making me redundant so I got a little bit of money too and I found another job ten times better in a about 2 months.

What I'm getting at is that you too, could get a better job and I hope you do. Also you'll be able to look for part time from the outset.

Hope my rambling makes sense.

Paul

I'm under no illusions about any of this. There is inevitably a gap between what people (employers/employees) have to do and what they do willingly. We have to be aware of our legal and moral rights and their legal responsibilities and we have to hold people's feet to the fire to close the gap when we can.

This is hard for someone with autism to do as we are not generally well endowed with negotiation skills. The Catch-22 of autism is that we have poor communication skills so we find it hard to explain what those issues are to an employer who probably has no idea.

It is probably important for PF to work out if the role itself is difficult or if there is a personality clash. I left my last job because the role required a degree of proficiency at multi-tasking that I could not achieve. The people in the firm were nice enough but they struggled to understand autism and had no understanding of how to make the role work with me in it.

Yes, but that's imposed and there will be some employers who will not be terribly enthusiastic about govermental lesgislation and if they think they can make an employee 'uncomfortable' about their issues and give them a way out they might do just that. Let's not be naive here, rbs. It depends on what they consider as 'reasonable adjustments.'

Obviously, an official diagnosis would place PF in a stronger position since this would be medical evidence of her condition.

lostmyway said:

you could take the view that your employers are, after all, runing a business and, therefore, it is not really their responsibility to support someone who has a disability

They do have responsibilities under the Equality Act 2010 to make "reasonable adjustments" to enable disabled people to do jobs. This is not an unlimited responsibility but it is still a clear responsibility.

There are also various funds available from the government (e.g. Access to Work, PIP etc) that are intended to keep people in work because it is recognised that keeping people in work is good for people's mental health and ultimately this is better for the country overall than pushing these people into a dependancy culture.

Hello PixieFox,

Thanks for updating the thread, sorry to hear your employers could not accomodate your request. It seems like you have got a good grip of the situation in your mind, and can use that "clarity" as a base to move forward.

I had seriously considered dropping my hours to part time like you did, got to the point of asking my employer. I didn't ask for it in the end, because I was sure if I did that I would be expected to fit 4.5 days work in to 3 days. So have resigned myself to working full time, or not at all with them

My previous change of employment was very messy and difficult, but I ended up with a much better employer in the end.

Random

To be candid, I can see both sides of this. I mean, you could take the view that your employers are, after all, runing a business and, therefore, it is not really their responsibility to support someone who has a disability, which does seem a bit hard-hearted, I admit.

Having said that though, one could also question the wisdom of allowing someone who has performed their job to a high standard and has a good character to move on.

It seems to me if they are not willing to give you a reasonable amount of support, PF, then perhaps they don't value you enough and you might be better off somewhere else. It will, after all, be their loss.

Hi PF,

I've edited my last post with a different link, which hopefully will get you to the booklet and perhaps some other useful resources.

My cynical head tells me that if course your employer is going to be supportive of you waiting till you find another job, because it conveniently absolves them of their responsibilities to you as a disabled employee (whether providing reasonable adjustments, or ultimately possibly medically retiring you, which could well (should?) include pension provision).

On the other hand, I know it's a horribly uncomfortable position to be in a job that is not going smoothly, the desire to leave the situation asap and being mentally worn down and therefore unable to assert one's own needs and rights while in the midst of it all without a lot of support.

All the best for you and your health, whatever choices you make.

Curious

My understanding in terms of insurance is that a condition wouldn't be deemed pre-existing unless it had been diagnosed, so autism being a life long condition shouldn't exclude you from being assessed for it.

You are already protected by the Equality Act (2010) because your employer has been made aware of your mental health difficulties, e.g. depression. The 3rd booklet listed on this page of Rethink's resources (a pdf) has guidance on mental health, employment and  adjustments and is titled 'What's reasonable at work' www.rethink.org/.../w [edited to include a more reasonably sized link! Hope you can find it this time, pixiefox]

An employer has to make adjustments which are reasonable, in their circumstances. For example, it could be deemed reasonable to recruit another part time member of staff to make up the hours that you want to reduce. Beyond reasonable adjustments, that's where Access to Work funding comes in, according to the booklet I have linked to.

You can decide to join a union regardless of the size of the organisation you work for. You would select the one most relevant to the work you do. If you did join a union it would be worth clarifying with them what they can offer you on this specific issue, because they may have a policy of not representing members on issues studying before joining, though they don't always strictly uphold this and may nevertheless offer you some guidance. Alternatively, a disability employment support service may be able to help you, or you could take someone who knows you personally, like a friend or family member. Having someone with you may also depend on whether this is a formal meeting under their absence/sickness policy, so you could clarify the situation with your employer.

My perception is that if a suspected condition is affecting your ability to carry out daily life (e.g. work, relationships, self care) this is often used as the threshold for further investigation and, if relevant, diagnosis. So if you want an NHS diagnosis, do your best to assert to your GP that it is affecting your life. You could get an advocate to go with you if you think this would be difficult to do on your own. In Scotland and possibly elsewhere people with mental health issues have a statutory right to advocacy.

Ultimately, if your employer cannot make sufficient adjustments to enable you to keep your job, they would have to medically retiree you, though this is not something an employer would do lightly, as the fairness of the dismissal could be challenged in an employment tribunal, where they would need to demonstrate they had exhausted possible reasonable adjustments for you.

Hi PixieFox,

I have only read bits and pieces of this Thread, and I am going though similar experience to you, except I have diagnosis.

Regarding your work private health care, my work only put in place a scheme after my diagnosis. Reading the small print of the policy, it didn't cover anything that was pre-existing before policy started, and as aspergers and autism is life long I feel that I would not be covered. (This is my interpretation, just letting you know my experience).

Personally, I think you should pursue a diagnosis, but that is up to you. It is best the diagnosis is done by NHS as this hold more weight.

On your question of not having anyone available to support your diagnosis. I went through diagnosis without this input, my family relationship is "fractured", I didn't want my Father to know, my Sister is the other side of the world, and my relationship with my brother is very awkward. It didn't make a difference for my diagnosis, but may be different for someone else. I thought I was border-line, but as we went through all the questions, it was clear I was on the spectrum.

If you get NHS diagnosis, you will be able to apply for Personal Independence Payment. It is a long process, and difficult, but I am on lower general support rate; although I felt I should get mobility with the amount of distress and anxiety I have about travelling to new places. There is no guarantee you will qualify, it will largely depend on the person making the decision and the understanding of person interviewing you. You need to go in to the finest of detail of how your condition is affecting you.

I am going through the adjustments at work, I thought it started ok, and were listening. Its a bit of a rocky road, I have asked for simple changes, which seemed to be brushed to one side. They then arrange an appointment with occupational health in order to determine changes required. I have mixed feelings about the appointment, the guy at the interview didn't seem to know what he was expected to do.

I have asked for our discussions to resume, but have been off sick nearly a month, and under huge pressure with various things. One thing they do seem to be listening on is social events. I have option not to go, but we are working though arrangement which would make it easier for me. One of those is to have an escape route, when I can go to somewhere on my own if things get too much, or to simply leave and make my way back home.

I have let my employers know about my AS, but have only let my line manager know, have been guarded about letting other colleagues know. Yes, I have made a fuss and a major issue out of it. It has helped with my long sickness recently, at least they know why. I hope to get some of the adjustments through. 

Random

Hi Pixiefox,

It is likely that the company's provision of private health care is their way of providing an occupational health service - i.e. it is their way of complying with the law. The private health will, very likely, cover mental health issues and I would actually expect that a large proportion of their consultations are on mental health issues. The company is under an obligation to monitor health issues (they might actually be responsible for some of the health issues arising) and they could be seen as being negligent if someone had significant health absence and they did nothing about it. I had a couple of consultations with this type of outsourced OH provision and found the professionals (a group of GPs who were doing this work as a sideline to their main GP practice) to be very sympathetic and eager to help get reasonable adjustments in place. There is an important aspect of the equality act that means that you don't actually need a diagnosis to be given some allowance for your condition so they can give you some reasonable adjustments even if you don't have a full diagnosis - it just has to be evident that you would benefit from being treated more appropriately.

Your doubts about feeling that you might not qualify for a diagnosis are actually a common fear of people who would genuinely benefit from a diagnosis. The fact that you are struggling with work is another sign and I would really encourage you to try and deal with this with the help that you could get from the professionals rather than retreating and avoiding tackling this.

Your score of 41 (about the same as me) means that you very likely to get a diagnosis if you wanted to go through with it. A diagnosis does not lead to instant resolution of your issues but I feel so much better for knowing what I am and that there are resources to help one with the very real difficulties that the condition gives us.

I scored 41 on the AQ test first time, and told the GP this when I saw him to discuss the depression and anxiety which caused me to be off sick a few months back. He gave the opinion that the result may be affected slightly by depression, but asked me to print off and send him my results for analysis. So I did it again after returning to work when I was feeling better, but still got 40. 

I think I've been slightly influenced by the attitude which seems to be prevalent in our society that if you don't have a serious illness or major physical disability, you are "lazy" if you don't work full time.

Also, because the way I think and feel is "normal" to me, and most of my life I've been able to cope, I find it difficult to accept that I have a "disability". Although I've told a few of my colleagues about my AS, I haven't wanted to discuss it with my employers or ask for any adjustments as I don't want to cause a fuss or make it into some major issue. It's come to the point where I have to do that now though. I hope it will turn out to be a positive thing.

Hi Pixiefox

Mainly agree with what Tom has written. I think 10 days sick in 6 months is likely to trigger some action or concern from your employer. This is a reasonable threshold and I suspect that this is likely to be their standard procedure. They may even be watching their own backs - if there is a high sick rate then they can get into trouble for having a stressful environment - there are health and safety rules that require sickness and stress to be monitored.

I would look at getting Access to Work involved at some point but this might require a diagnosis so I would agree with Tom that you should follow up on getting a diagnosis. Also, employers should have occupational health provision (this is a legal requirement that relates to health and safety) that might be able to help you - you could ask to be referred for an appointment with one of their doctors who might suggest a workplace assessment. That assessment might lead to some reasonable adjustments or changes in working environment.