ASD traits and do you identify with my own?

I read your list of impairments and could sympathise with alsmost all of them, I could ride a bike but I was always hopeless with shoelaces and buttons. It is so nice to know I am not alone in this big old world.

James

I'm afraid ignorance of what aspergers is is widespread. Most people have an image of someone getting angry and flailing out and hitting someone. Also there's a widespread perception that people with aspergers stalk people and make improper approaches. Working with support people a lot, I've been horrified how many base their knowledge on clinical cases they've read about or seen during training.

Consequently I seldom disclose having aspergers, though it is obviously necessary when working with people on the spectrum that colleagues know my background, I never tell students on the spectrum. My experience of revealing it is invariably influenced by stereotypes, either a sudden switch to "does he take sugar mode" - treating me as if I'm not able, or being overly and embarrassingly empathic. But I realise those whose asperger traits are more marked may need to do this. I just get on with it and muddle through and have to make apologies.

I wish NAS would tackle professional perceptions more. I believe this is a fundamental barrier to making life easier for people on the spectrum. We need to make people more aware of the range of difficulties and manifestations that are possible so we can move away from clinical stereotypes.

I recently disclosed to an MP who chairs a committee I am on, where we were discussing this, and his reaction was to express surprise saying he had always thought me quite intelligent. Its just an impossible world out there if aspergers isn't properly explained.

According to Asperger Technical (Google for website) AS is covered by the Disabilty Discrimination Act. That said, at our local Jobcentre,they insisted on calling it an 'illness'. I suspect they'd also call colour blindness an illness..

There is a real problem with the definition of ASD/Aspergers. On one hand there are difficulties suich as communication, sensory overload and organisation which ammount to disabilities. In coping with the resulting difficulties people suffer low self esteem or depression and have difficulty in living independent lives or holding down a job.

However I perceive the medical definition of ASD/Aspergers is a psychosis or state of mind that makes it difficult for people to live ordinary independent lives. In this perspective the communication, sensory and organisational traits  result from the psychosis and can be used as diagnostic features. Treating the psychosis with drugs or psychotherapy automatically resolves the communication, sensory and organisational traits. I might be accused of over-simplification but that's what comes over in a lot of literature. Treatment of the psychosis is deemed an all round cure.

People who have a mild psychosis and dont need intrervention only have mild aspergers, and their perceived communication, sensory and organisation problems are therefore insignificant.

Although I recognise that my problems are at the mild end I perceive myself as having achieved something despite these difficulties.  Other people with more severe problems may not be able to achieve as much.

People with dyslexia who have achieved in sport, arts or other professions are flagged up as exemplars of what you can achieve despite disability. Not so with ASD/Aspergers. We hear that Einstein and Newton had asperger traits. But had they been around today they wouldn't be diagnosed with aspergers because they achieved. Aspergers, treated as a psychosis, somehow precludes being able to achieve anything. Or else they would be on drug regimes or interventions that prevented them making the scientific breakthroughs they made.

There seems to be a medical assumption that ASD/ Aspergers is just the inability to cope with things NTs find easy. If you manage to cope you no longer have aspergers. It isn't much incentive to try if successfully coping disqualifies you from having the condition.

Until we recognise the communication, sensory and organisational phenomena as ACTUAL disabilities, we are never going to be able to progress the lives of people on the spectrum. Can NAS challenge the definition?

The problem with the AQ test is that it asks questions that are supposed to assist the diagnosis of a stereotypical person on the spectrum, and it doesn't address a lot of the issues that people on the spectrum encounter.

If I stick to Zone Tripper's original questions a lot of these are other aspects of asperger's etc that many people encounter that maybe ought to be taken into account, and also in many cases need to be explored by researchers.

Zone tripper's first three were about coordination, the sorts of things that might generate a diagnosis of Dyspraxia but are also true of autistic spectrum. For my part I couldn't learn to swim, and cycling was a disaster as I couldn't hand signal and couldn't control the bike. I couldn't catch a ball or anything thrown at me and couldn't play coordination based sports or games. Nor could I do coordination exercises or synchonised gymnastics as far as these were asked for in school. I also tried to learn to ride a horse but couldn't post (I went up when the horse went down). I'm lumbering and clumsy and while I've improved with age was criticised for walking oddly.

Zone tripper's fourth was about stress. I have to manage stress carefully, but know when to remove myself from such environments or try to compensate. UI'm probably luucky and only have such issues mildly. But rooms or spaces where a lot of people are moving around or talking are really difficult. I have trouble queuing, feeling trapped and anxious. Railway stations can be bad news.

I'm not inclined to be home sick, but I am reluctant to change routines, though able to do so when I have to. Travel takes a lot of planning but goes OK once I'm travelling. Getting workmen in the house is a nightmare as I seem unable to convey my wishes properly and get very stressed.

My eye contact, as previously indicated in this string, appears OK but when young I talked to my tie and couldn't look at people. I nowadays look at people's mouths and find eye contact disturbing.

I'm not too focussed. On the whole this has proved vbery useful, though I forget time and looking after myself when I'm on a project.

I've learned to play act formal social situations by necessity, but informal social situations are a nightmare, especially if there is lots of talking in the background, as I cannot seem to filter properly. I tend to stay on the edge of rooms and often end up sitting on my own just to recover.

Hugging or kissing, often expectecd socially, is acutely difficult. I get tired in social situations and noticeably more and more introspective and uncomfortable.

I stimmed in all sorts of ways when young, then because of parental and peer pressure reverted to no movements at all, even keeping my arms steady when walking. Nowadays it only arises when walking in crowded places like shopping ma;lls, busy concourses etc. I start talking to myself and making gestures just to somehow compensate.

But I'm supposedly mild, have had a career (now semi-retired) and can look after myself. So I realise how tough it can be for those more markedly affected.

Perhaps this is why the Autistic Spectrum Quiz (ASQ) is so useful. It asks 50 questions, each of which gives you four possible responses in terms of severity. When all your problems are put together like that, it emphasises them. I don't know whether GPs are encouraged to be aware of the ASQ; if not, they should be!

I think Asperger's as a diagnosis wasn't really used until the 1980's, is that right?

Back in 2002 I saw an article in 'New Scientist' about AS, describing the work of Prof. Baron-Cohen. I recognised mself in a lot of it.. I was nervous about asking my GP, thinking that if I went to him and said 'look, I've seen this article in a magazine, and..' he would have laughed me out of the surgery!

I think I may have done him an injustice.. Three years ago (aged 58 and out of work) I approached him with the results of the Autistic Spectrum Quiz, having scored myself at 36.  He did not hesitate in referring me to a clinical psychologist, who investigated my life in some detail, then took me through the quiz again - and scored me at 42.

QED..

(I'm female, and married with two adult sons.)

zone_tripper said:

<snip>

I am curious as to what traits other Autistic / Aspie NAS members have and whether any fellow Autistic / Aspie NAS members share some of my own traits? 

 

Here are some of my common traits:

• Difficulty with handwriting (poor handwriting, having to write in capitals) and holding a pen or pencil in my own way and not like the normal way most people hold a pencil).

• Difficulty in learning to ride a bike as a child; I eventually managed to, but after a lot of trying.
  
  
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  I can't ride  bike. I only tried once, and that scared me silly.
  
  
• Inability to learn how to swim as a child and teenager (I still cannot swim).
  
  
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  I taught myself to swim at age 7, in a swimming pool, by staying close to the side and seeing how far I could go. It was a saltwater pool, which may have helped a bit.
  
  
• Inability to catch objects thrown at me, such as a tennis ball, set of keys, and so forth. 
  
  
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  I have this problem.
• I get easily stressed, upset, anxious, etc, when faced with stressful situations.
  
  
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  And this. I have hypertension, possibly as a result (my GP won't say).
• Home sickness; after moving out of my parents home, I suffered severe home sickness and moved back in with my parents (possibly inability to cope with change and wanting the comfort blanket of the family home).
  
  
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  I never had any such comfort blanket; my relationship with my parents was severely damaged - I now know it was because of the AS - that I was glad to be able to leave. 
• Not always looking at the person I am speaking to, such as looking left or right or with head bowed. 
  
  
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  Sometimes.
• Having an intense interest in hobbies and collecting; tabletop roleplaying games, collecting replica historical coins, collecting counterfeit one pound coins, BIG fan of Doctor Who (from 1980s to present day), limited interest in music but very intense interest in the few bands and solo artists that I am interested in, collected Doctor Who inspired LARP props, working as a volunteer for the same charity for 15 years, intense interest in reading about certain subjects rather than general reading, etc.
  
  
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  Intensely interested in reading science fiction and have been since age 10. Can't STAND romance novels. Used to be a Beatles fan, but never saw them play live as I was abroad for mist of the 60s!
• In person, very quiet, stand-offish and reserved, not talking much, keeping to oneself; even in the company of some relations and friends, sometimes.
• BUT… very communicative on social networking sites, Internet forums, email, etc. 
• Difficulty with social interaction (see above) when in the company of complete strangers. 
  
  
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  All of this.
• Inability to cope with change and getting very upset and stressed and anxious in such circumstances.
  
  
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  Generally I don't have a problem, possibly because my father's job meant a lot of moving house (and twice, country) from an early age, so I got used to it. But I can't cope with interruptions at all. i really hated it when I was at work on the computer and people would come up and grab my attention (usually, it seemed, in the middle of a cut-and-paste!!!). It stopped my thoughts in their tracks, which was actually painful.
• Disliking physical contact when not wanted or asked for. 
• In addition to disliking certain physical contact, I also have difficulty hugging people; I tend to hug people gingerly and nervously. 
• Sometimes being unable to show empathy and unable to empathise with others, even though I know what it is to show empathy and how one does.   
  
  
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  Again, this is all me. I think it was the basis of my problems with my parents.
• Stimming; twisting and turning my head and neck, exaggeratingly nodding my head, rocking back and forth (especially when stressed or upset), scratching my arms, picking my nose (disgusting, I know), occasionally sucking my thumb, holding my forehead (when stressed, trying to think or when forgetful), amongst possible others. 
  
  
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  I don't do this at all.. as far as I know; will have to ask OH!
  
  
• Possible hypersensitivity to smell or at least some smells (I hate the chlorine smell of bleach, for one example). 
  
  
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  No problems with smells, but I do have a problem with touch - I hate the feel of anything 'slimy', either on my hand or in my mouth. I am physically incapable of eating a soft-boiled egg!

This wide range of possible "symptoms", many not considered significant by GPs who go by the main diagnostic criteria, not necessarily still obvious in adults. But something no-one has discussed yet is this pitfall, that when you explain a symptom you get the answer "- well everybody gets that......" and also "its a spectrum isn't it so how do you tell whether you're at the diagnosis end rather than the 'normal' end.

Having got through school interventions because my parents wouldn't have it, and being at the "mild" end, I then spent my twenties and thirties in the "immaturity"/"inadequacy" years (1970s and 1980s). This is when GPs classed anyone who couldn't cope with what seemed to them to be everyday problems as immature, and there was literature around about the abuse of GP's time dealing with immature people. 

My response to that was just to clam up, and not seek help and soldier on (my own image of a crippled space ship lost in space). But I witnessed others in all kinds of contexts having clear problems coping but being turned away for having "immaturity problems". I suspect a lot of people of around my generation who now know they are on the autistic spectrum, or think they may be but cannot get diagnosed because of GP and clinical resistance to the idea, experienced this glib dismissal. Behind this barrier I suspect is a long established belief that people who had social and day-today coping problems just lacked true grit. Very English notion.

A lot what is being identified in these lists would have got the label "inadequacy" or "immaturity". Perhaps this is something NAS could look into.

I have the same problem of getting itchy in hot weather and if I scratch too much I get a rash.

do any of you get really itchy when its hot, and when your fingernails are too short transferring onto the skin on the tips of your fingers?

Like Longman I have been told my eye-contact is very good but I don't get any information from the eyes, and I tend to look more at the mouth and nose than at the eyes proper. I think we make eye-contact because we learn that we are valued more highly if we do, but we don't do it naturally or in a social way. I can listen better to people if I look downwards, and even better still if I close my eyes, but I am aware that this looks anti-social so I try not to do this, with the end result being that I don't properly process everything the person is trying to say

longman said:

The big problem is, as Hope points out several times, you do "improve" through need or social conditioning. That surely doesn't mean you are "cured". 

That is so true.  However good one is at copying, acting, faking, etc. it doesn't make  the basic anxiety and stress any better.

I wish they would improve the way diagnoses are made. It just seems you qualify if you fit certain key things clinicians look for. Hence I suspect a lot of people don't get diagnosed who have a lot of AS traits. Similarly you only qualify for support or counselling if your traits are signicantly disabling. But if you are managing to be independent you just don't exist and get no help at all.

I am very lucky. A lot of bad things happened when younger but I improved in my thirties - very late developer. I do not have dyslexia and being able to write well was an important compensation. For many years I couldn't live up to the expectations my writing implied, and though I could act out a good first impression, the "holes" showed very quickly afterwards. Gradually I've stage managed better formal interaction, but it just makes the contrast with informal socialising more marked.

I hate the assumptions about eye contact. I'm told I have good eye contact, and I can briefly meet someone's eyes. Mostly I look at mouths. Up to my early twenties I looked down mostly when talking to people but was persuaded to look at people when talking to them, and I perceive lots of people who seem to have made that jump to "faking" eye contact. Its just the clinicians and scientists haven't caught up with that phenomenon. How do you tell people who look at noses, mounths or chins from those who look at eyes? And what does eye contact mean?

The big problem is, as Hope points out several times, you do "improve" through need or social conditioning. That surely doesn't mean you are "cured". 

I learnt how to ride a bike without stabilizers when I was  7, the normal age.

But did not learn how to tie my shoelaces until I was 11.

I cannot swim and I have no desire to learn how to swim.

I am good at tennis and quite good at catching balls, but I am not good at team sports because I cannot work out the subtle social interaction and gestures that are involved.

Extremely bad at Maths and visual-spatial skills such as jigsaw puzzles, strategy games, chess etc

Can't fold clothes and make my bed properly although I am learning how to do so.

Extreme disorganization and messiness when it comes to my bedroom . This is due to a lack of motivation to tidy up and because I find it hard to do things that do not interest me, even if it would benefit me in the long-term.

I nod my head excessively when listening to someone and feel obliged to make eye-contact (when feeling under pressure). Nodding means that I can avoid making direct eye contact while looking as though I am.

I also rub my skin and prod myself, particularly in the neck area, when feeling stressed.

I rock when under stressed but also when I am excited.

I talk a lot around people that I feel comfortable with; I often talk too much, usually about my interests, although I also ask people a lot of questions: I want to know in exact detail what they have been doing during the day, what food they eat (an obsession of mine) and the order that they do things.

I feel awkward around physical contact but I don't mind firm hugs, so long as I am in control.

I get obsessed around certain subjects, currently politics and HIstorical matters. I will only read fiction if it is factual in nature i.e. George Orwell, CHarles Dickens. But I read more fact than fiction.

I have OCD and extreme anxiety around possible contamination. Consequently I  wash up over zealously and I am scared of illness. I am also hypochondriacal (health-anxiety).

I also have many phobias: dogs, thunderstorms, lifts, crowded places etc

I always feel tense and I find it very hard to relax

I hate unexpected and sudden change, particularly if it is outside of my control. I usually react by throwing a temper tantrum: crying, screaming, throwing things, clawing face, feeeling as though the world is about to end...

I like being around people but only if I am in control. HOwever, I do not like informal groups, and I struggle being around neuro-typicals who are the same age as me, my peer group, in other words. But I get on well with fellow aspies-most of the time!

I am interested in other people but I often get distracted and lose concentration when they are talking to me. I often have to ask people to repeat things they have said. My listening skills are improving, however.

I don't like chaotic environments: parties, loud banter, hot and stuffy social occasions etc

I am very sensitive to my environment and so I do not like to spend long periods of time in hot, noisy, smelly rooms.

I love collecting information and reading books.

I see numbers and days of the week in colour and I generally see the world in a very colourful, orderly way.

I walk on tip-toes when I have no shoes on although I don't do this as much as I did in the past.

I find empathy difficult but I am very aware of this fact and it pains me greatly. I want to feel empathy and I often try and work out what people are feeling, or to get into their shoes, but I struggle to feel the deep, heartfelt emotion. But I care deeply about social justice and I am a very logical person.

I prefer documentaries to drama.

I used to find it very difficult to know what to talk about in social situations but I have improved greatly.

I can concentrate best if I am not making eye-contact but I feel under pressure to make eye-contact so I do try and look in the eyes, but I find this quite distracting at times

Diagnosed two years ago. Was statemented at school (attended mainstream), but no label was given me back then, other than that I was an 'Enigma' child with academic difficulties and social immaturity at school

[quote user="NAS15711"]

• Difficulty in learning to ride a bike as a child; I eventually managed to, but after a lot of trying.
• Inability to learn how to swim as a child and teenager (I still cannot swim).
• Inability to catch objects thrown at me, such as a tennis ball, set of keys, and so forth. 
• I get easily stressed, upset, anxious, etc, when faced with stressful situations.
• Home sickness; after moving out of my parents home, I suffered severe home sickness and moved back in with my parents (possibly inability to cope with change and wanting the comfort blanket of the family home).
• Not always looking at the person I am speaking to, such as looking left or right or with head bowed. 
• Having an intense interest in hobbies and collecting; tabletop roleplaying games, collecting replica historical coins, collecting counterfeit one pound coins, BIG fan of Doctor Who (from 1980s to present day), limited interest in music but very intense interest in the few bands and solo artists that I am interested in, collected Doctor Who inspired LARP props, working as a volunteer for the same charity for 15 years, intense interest in reading about certain subjects rather than general reading, etc. 
• In person, very quiet, stand-offish and reserved, not talking much, keeping to oneself; even in the company of some relations and friends, sometimes.
• BUT… very communicative on social networking sites, Internet forums, email, etc. 
• Difficulty with social interaction (see above) when in the company of complete strangers. 
• Inability to cope with change and getting very upset and stressed and anxious in such circumstances.
• Disliking physical contact when not wanted or asked for. 
• In addition to disliking certain physical contact, I also have difficulty hugging people; I tend to hug people gingerly and nervously. 
• Sometimes being unable to show empathy and unable to empathise with others, even though I know what it is to show empathy and how one does.   
• Possible hypersensitivity to smell or at least some smells (I hate the chlorine smell of bleach, for one example). 

I share all of these with you but not the ones I've  taken out.