Communication difficulties and different autistic profiles

On the Random Thoughts thread I said that I often don't feel like I belong here and many of you were kind enough to tell me my contributions to discussion are valued, but I think one of the reasons I don't feel I belong is that autism manifests differently in me to how it does in most others.

Many people here seem to AUHD, whereas I'm a Liminal Austic Thinker, this means I like to inhabit the grey areas of life, rather than the black and white of Binary Thinkers, or the fact driven thought processes of Analytical Thinkers or the High Energy, rapid paced emotional short hand loving AUDH people.

This difference in cognitive style makes it hard for us all to communicate easily, it's why I don't get emojis and others love them and are quite happy to post long streams of them that mean loads to those of the same cognitive type, where as I just look at them and think Eh? Of course not being able to see them properly even with my glasses dosen't help either. I need a longer form of commuication, not short forms of text speak and emojis, especially when theres an emotional depth to what people are communicating, I don't understand memes either, probably because I don't inhabit the spaces that use them, but it's very difficult for those of us who aren't AUDH to always understand WTF people are on about.

I know I'm a deep thinker, who's uncomfortable with binary answers, choices and rules based thinking and black and white thinking in general, I guess some people read what I've posted and think 'WTF's she on about now, I can't be bothered to read all that, why can she just say it with a meme and a couple of emojis?' I see patterns in a lot of things, the story behind the story, where things that seem very different are expression of a similar thing and sometimes the same thing, it's very rare for me to think in a straight line, to me the world is like a jigsaw where I can see the whole picture and at the same time move pieces around, this happens in different dimensions and levels too, nothing is vertical or flat and without texture.

Having had training in both counselling and a history degree has really taught me to ask questions of questions, to look under the surface of whats presented to me and to say the unpleasant, the deviant, the socially unexceptable, to name the game being played and ask others if they see the game too and do they really want to play it? This is uncomfortble for many people, but once I've seen something like that I can't unsee it, I can't not say what I see, people of a more binary type of thinking or an analytical type might look and think something like ' the ladders falling down, all the bits are on the floor, must deny the collapse and put the ladder back together'.

I think basically what I'm trying to say is that AUDH is the dominant type here and that why I often feel that I don't fit in, we literally see the world differently, through different lenses. But is it just me that feels like this? Can we make a bit more effort to be accomodating of different types? I wonder if other people come here and are put off because they don't feel reflected in what they read here how responses are framed?

I think theres also a danger that AUDH is seen as the only type or even the most common type of autism and all services end up geared towards AUDH and those of us who express differently are excluded again, are doubly stigmatised by an NT world that dosen't understand and dosen't really want to and an ND world thats seems largely AUDH and is just relieved to have finally been recognised. Included in this exclusion is those of us who don't cope well with the digital world, the dominant narrative being that autistic people don't like talking to others so if we do everything digitally then thats ok. So whilst you lots are happily chatting away using memes and emojis, theres others of us sitting down with a piece of paper, a fountain pen and ink from a bottle, trying to set down our thoughts.

  • I'm back from my pizza oven and have given a bit more thought to the original post - which seems to me to touch on some of the essence of being autistic each of us with our own "spikey proflies" and communication difficulties.

    I appreciate that naming the people who have inspired this deserve mention - however suffice perhaps to say to all thanks for the heads up and the stimulus.

    As I understand it autistic people each have their own intense sensory sensitivities, communication preferences and, if I'm anything to go by, rigid cognitive systems.  These individual needs can easily clash - eg someone needing absolute silence whilst others are giving it large vocally to process information (hmmm... interesting when this is familial difference - don't ask me how I know! (at least not in a loud voice please :-) )  add to this how these things ebb and flow in one depending on how much stress one is experiencing.

    Then, once again as I understand it, autistic brains they are built for deep independent systemising rather than group conformity.  We'll do our own working out, thanks very much, and aren't so keen on fitting into some sort of social hierarchy or tribal loyalty. So getting a collective consensus from autistic people involves each and all of them investing a huge amount of individual energy. 'cos none of us are inherently particularly willing to compromise our own logical conclusions just to "keep the peace".

    The way I figure it evolutionary processes have autistic people doing a lot of heavy lifting for humanity by being different and "spikey" and getting a lot of flack for it.  Meanwhile being scattered within humanity separately - we simply aren't a separate tribe.  Hehe, can you imagine what would happen if one day autistic people were all able to get together and just leave the rest of humanity to it - the way I imagine it humanity would fail and autistic people would lose purpose..

    From a practical personal point of view as I have aged I have found that I have had to invest so much energy in trying to impress on people (who often really struggle to re-frame their own understanding of what the heck is going on) my own logical conclusion that I have somewhat run out of capacity to do so.  I think this is possibly down to self preservation.

    hehe maybe personally I am become more French: "vive la difference" - but please give me a nice dark room to go and lie in on my own sometimes...

    best wishes

  • Best wishes to you for your dwelling place of choice.

  • I think your final point is a good one for me to conclude on.

    Best wishes.

  • I think im saying about trying to find common ground but then there's also accepting - there are just some people one will never get along with. And also some environments which are just not suitable

    I understand and respect how you feel. I’m remaining detached (insofar as I can) from the situation and from being too specific. Our differences make us the interesting individuals we are. For some, it may allow us to find commonality or to compromise, while others dwell in places unknown. 

  • TheCatWoman and contributors below - thank you for what has been for me an interesting and thought provoking few hours and the space to spew my brains. Its been nice to share ideas and resonance with others but now I must away into a pumpkin...of thoughts... For my own sanity!

    Achoo!!

  • I agree with yout first comment, its a valid point and i think its always helpful to have a sense of humour about ourselves and not take things too seriously. Balance is important! I also agree with your second comment regarding personality and background and feel it better articulates ones of my points below - in that looking at trying to understand why another person can be quite different to myself and why they think or behave in certain ways. I think im saying about trying to find common ground but then there's also accepting - there are just some people one will never get along with. And also some environments which are just not suitable. And that i do find some situations of communications frustrating A.F.
    Im not sure if I've hijacked this thread (my original MO).

  • Self reflection leading to self awareness is good, so long as it doesn’t become navel gazing. I think personality and background can account for how we may feel and communicate things. Self reflection can lead to the ability to understand others, to be kind to them, without necessarily agreeing with them, but it can take practice.

    Lack of interest in the subject matter can prevent people from practising active listening. Personally, I find it difficult to engage with some subjects and occasionally have a rant because I’m not in a position to do something about it. I try to tip the balance of my thinking in favour of the positive things I can do. It can be difficult because I was brought up in a household where one person was constantly ranting and banging on about something. This community offers a space for healthy engagement, but sometimes I don’t have the capacity to engage fully.

  • I had 2 months away from the forum myself until yesterday  

    I was put off by "over-policing" and conflict as I saw it myself... and yep beating myself up about it.

    I came back because I wanted to communicate with people more likely to understand me, help me help myself feel better and in order to try to help others.

    totally concur with the understanding and appreciating one's own differences in order to appreciate others - something maybe related to empathising with one self in order to empathise with others - personally I think this self empathy is the "third" empathy problem that is is perhaps caused by the dual empathy problem.

    I'm off to start a fire in my pizza oven - I look forward to agreeing and maybe even disagreeing with you in the future!

    Best Wishes

  • Its interesting because, I know people who have incredible flexibility of thought but may be considered by our standards as shallow thinkers. They are good people. I know myself I tend to err on what I would consider deeper thought but am aware, however not all the time, that my interpretations can be quite black and white. I still consider myself to hold more imaginative ideas and concepts than the 'flexible shallow' thinkers i know. However they sometimes offer a way of thinking i hadn't considered before.

  • And its those environmental factors which are causing a withdrawal Including retreating from online. So I am extremely surprised to find myself here. Maybe its a 24 hour experiment with myself.

    I find the concept of self awareness interesting. While I consider myself VERY aware of my own self, im also aware one can never work in absolutes and by my nature there will be things I do not realise or know about myself.

    Is also worth considering that what our own interpretation of deep thinking is may not even touch the sides with others. Also as what we consider to define as shallow....A good heart is the most important thing.

    The journey of being late diagnosed can be a frustrating and confusing one, but it can also bring positive changes if one looks closely enough. Once one starts to understand, accept and appreciate one's own differences one may start to do the same with others. Including difference in communication and thinking styles. It takes hard work.

    In essence we seem to agree on similar things....I think! Including an aversion to ourselves at times!!

  • I agree and I actuslly think giving yourself space for that thinking is important if you are that way inclined.

    Solitary thinkers are welcome but its how this is communicated and whether the opportunity presents itself here. Once one stops looking to others for validation of their self, or why they are the way they are, a certain freedom can be found. This is always work in progress and its not to say I do not share my ideas with others.


    I do observe that online, in particularly here, the sphere is simply a space used for people to rant and moan about petty things without actually wanting anything to change. But then let's be kind, give others space and prompt ourselves to consider - why do others feel or think particular things in the way they do? What is it that is missing or troubling them?

    A lot of the time we find ourselves talking about things instead of actually doing them. There's a lack of active listening online but an abundance of opinion.

    Oh the irony!

  • One may be or become allergic to many things - sometimes quite dangerously so - even oneself in my experience.  I think we concur that environmental factors of all sorts seem to be key to managing this risk.

    It is sometimes said of someone that although they may, by their behaviour, appear shallow in their thinking and relationships to other people and the wider world they actually have "hidden depths" when they occasionally reveal to others by saying or doing something that contradicts the supposition.

    The joke that someone has "hidden shallows" I have heard applied to someone who is so shallow that the shallows are themselves hidden!

    I think that for myself I was intimating that I personally find it hard to be shallow in my thinking! (hehe or at least am so shallow that I fail to recognise when I am being so!).

    Best wishes 

  • By its very nature deep thinking is just that - a solitary pursuit

    Solitary, deep thinkers are very welcome here. 

    Some religious mystics, philosophical thinkers and contemplators of life and independent thinking, have chosen the solitary deep thinking path at some stage of their life.

  • I had a feeling you might. However, any decision i make is more likely to be allergy related.

    What do you mean by hidden shallows?

  • It may help you in your decision making regarding this if I respond (genuinely) that I agree with that which you have written  .

    There is perhaps a relevant self deprecating joke I am reminded of, that is to say: "I have hidden shallows." :-)

    Best Wishes

    Phased

  • I dont know what im doing back here. This is nothing personal at all but I may turn into a deleted user quite quickly.

  • My perspectives are thus;
    Black and white thinking can be interpreted as literal thinking, while grey area thinking could be interpreted as flexible thinking. Black and white thinking is different to being closed minded; grey area thinking is not the same as being open minded.
    Some people are able to have more and different imagination than others.

    How do you think you come across here? This isn't being confrontational.


    Next, its also worth considering that, your comments are simply your own perspective - maybe challenge this? Look for the grey area in your own ideas.

    Discussion is only as interesting as you make it, and is only as interesting as the people taking part. Different thinking styles would enhance this. All of this is a matter of perspective for each individual. My perpective on this matter is one of the reasons I left the forum last year. My experience and perception is deep thinking communication happens organically with the right ingredients and I wonder if the forum still has that - in the way that I would require.

    Lastly, its worth noting that as neurodivergent people whether that be AS, Audhd - difficulty with communication is our difference. Its what we struggle with. Its a huge part of why we are the way we are, in terms of how we relate to others and how we say things. 


    I hope that my comments promote further thought. It doesn't even touch the surface of what goes on inside my head. That, I would never be able to sufficiently communicate. By its very nature deep thinking is just that - a solitary pursuit. One which i get a great deal of fulfilment from.

  • Well I guess what I've been trying to say is that I feel lonely in a crowd, so  I'll do what I always do and stop engaging with the crowd and carry on by myself and be the Cat that walks alone, again.

  • I do and have tried creating threads that are more deep minded and get very little or no response,

    That may just be because it is a subject that interests you more than others rather than the others not being 'deep' thinkers.

    I have concluded that many people, not just here, but all over the place don't like thinking.

    I believe that the members of this forum DO  like thinking and demonstrate this in their responses.

    In my case and I suspect others I would appreciate an 'off' or at least 'rest' switch for my brain on occasion.

    Please bear in mind that you don't actually personally know us.

  • I'm not trying to "other" people and I'm sorry if you've interpreted what I'm trying to explain as me me "othering". I do and have tried creating threads that are more deep minded and get very little or no response, as I said I enjoy the light hearted threads and don't see them as shallow, that is a misinterpretation of what I'm trying to say.

    One of the problems with fora like this, is that it can become difficult to say what you feel or think when you're replying to multiple posts on the same subject. Things can become disjointed, obviously in some parts that conversational flow, but in others it can get confusing. By lowest denominator I mean the terminollgy that we're allowed to use, look at how many threads on ornithology have been derailed because some common bird names might be deemed offensive to someone somewhere in the universe. I'm certainly not saying everybody has to think like me or agree with me, I'd just like a little more debate. I have concluded that many people, not just here, but all over the place don't like thinking.