Communication difficulties and different autistic profiles

On the Random Thoughts thread I said that I often don't feel like I belong here and many of you were kind enough to tell me my contributions to discussion are valued, but I think one of the reasons I don't feel I belong is that autism manifests differently in me to how it does in most others.

Many people here seem to AUHD, whereas I'm a Liminal Austic Thinker, this means I like to inhabit the grey areas of life, rather than the black and white of Binary Thinkers, or the fact driven thought processes of Analytical Thinkers or the High Energy, rapid paced emotional short hand loving AUDH people.

This difference in cognitive style makes it hard for us all to communicate easily, it's why I don't get emojis and others love them and are quite happy to post long streams of them that mean loads to those of the same cognitive type, where as I just look at them and think Eh? Of course not being able to see them properly even with my glasses dosen't help either. I need a longer form of commuication, not short forms of text speak and emojis, especially when theres an emotional depth to what people are communicating, I don't understand memes either, probably because I don't inhabit the spaces that use them, but it's very difficult for those of us who aren't AUDH to always understand WTF people are on about.

I know I'm a deep thinker, who's uncomfortable with binary answers, choices and rules based thinking and black and white thinking in general, I guess some people read what I've posted and think 'WTF's she on about now, I can't be bothered to read all that, why can she just say it with a meme and a couple of emojis?' I see patterns in a lot of things, the story behind the story, where things that seem very different are expression of a similar thing and sometimes the same thing, it's very rare for me to think in a straight line, to me the world is like a jigsaw where I can see the whole picture and at the same time move pieces around, this happens in different dimensions and levels too, nothing is vertical or flat and without texture.

Having had training in both counselling and a history degree has really taught me to ask questions of questions, to look under the surface of whats presented to me and to say the unpleasant, the deviant, the socially unexceptable, to name the game being played and ask others if they see the game too and do they really want to play it? This is uncomfortble for many people, but once I've seen something like that I can't unsee it, I can't not say what I see, people of a more binary type of thinking or an analytical type might look and think something like ' the ladders falling down, all the bits are on the floor, must deny the collapse and put the ladder back together'.

I think basically what I'm trying to say is that AUDH is the dominant type here and that why I often feel that I don't fit in, we literally see the world differently, through different lenses. But is it just me that feels like this? Can we make a bit more effort to be accomodating of different types? I wonder if other people come here and are put off because they don't feel reflected in what they read here how responses are framed?

I think theres also a danger that AUDH is seen as the only type or even the most common type of autism and all services end up geared towards AUDH and those of us who express differently are excluded again, are doubly stigmatised by an NT world that dosen't understand and dosen't really want to and an ND world thats seems largely AUDH and is just relieved to have finally been recognised. Included in this exclusion is those of us who don't cope well with the digital world, the dominant narrative being that autistic people don't like talking to others so if we do everything digitally then thats ok. So whilst you lots are happily chatting away using memes and emojis, theres others of us sitting down with a piece of paper, a fountain pen and ink from a bottle, trying to set down our thoughts.

  • I have no ADHD traits, I'm more of the ruminative type. There was a woman, one-time Queen of Norse Dublin, who is mentioned as a matriarch and prominent ancestor in many Icelandic sagas, she was called Aud the Deep-minded. I think 'deep-minded' is a good description of my type of autism.

  • My semi flippant comment above about the ills of social media ... I think there's a likely correlation between the interface (chats with themes and sequential comments, mostly texted on a phone) and the type of content. If I am interested in something I wanna read multiple books on it, research it, think on it deeply, intensely, and extensively. And to find anyone even vaguely interested at a level I don't find lonely and superficial... That's a dream for me. So, guess my point is that I connect with your initial thread, I feel a comparable pain from the nature of chats online, I very much doubt you're alone in finding it such. Is a related question perhaps 'how and where to build that sort of meaningful depth?'

  • Ahh, then I indeed know that one. Thank you for clarifying. 

  • don't know that acronym AUDH

    It’s a typo. AuDHD refers to autistic people who also have ADHD. People aren’t diagnosed with that label. It’s just the preferred unofficial term for some people who have both conditions. 

  • That's such a valid post and point you make. (I don't know that acronym AUDH).

    Until getting my diagnosis and jointing the NAS charity and this forum I'd effectively avoided all forms of social media, popular media, online interactions, and so on, for the reasons that I find them shallow, lopsided, view seeking, etc. and therefore are at best dull and more often painfully simplistic and lacking in nuance. 

    Without suggesting we're similar, I do in my own way resonate with much of what you say. I too have a degree (philosophy) and find I spend longer contemplating things, nuances, the infinity of grey areas, than anyone I know. 

    Like I suspect many may find themselves: I'd kinda concluded that nobody is interested in the level of depth with which I tend to go into everything, and had restricted my nature as a defaultany decades ago due to negative feedback; whether the unstated but obvious micro gesture or the more overt put down.

    I'd always rather do stuff in person (aside from sensory burnout and overwhelm) and online communication is my fallback in absence of alternatives.

    (If anyone fancies a full scale rant on how I believe social media and much of the development of mobile communications has caused global plague levels of ills, let me know). 

    So, what you say resonates a lot. I struggle with it. Maybe I struggle in the same, similar or completely different ways to you, and most likely all three. 

  • Thank you for your replies, I wasn't trying to be critical of anyones expression of autism and definately not trying to say that one is more superior to another. I don't expect to relate to everyone, peoples interests are different and many people do things I cannot relate to at all. I think we all try and give helpful responses to problems or funny ones to more whimsical threads.

    To be honest I don't know what something geared towards me would look like, it wouldn't have emojis or text speak.

    The Audhd thing does seem to be a dominant type here, or maybe those are the people who post more? I don't know, it's not the fact that AUDHDer's are here and posting that bothers me, I just feel that those of us with less common profiles can feel a little excluded, especially in the digital realm. Whilst I agree that services for anyone with autism and especially adults are attrocious I have noticed that more and more rely on digital stuff and I've heard it said many times that 'everyone who's autistic are brilliant with computors' I know thats not true, anymore than everyone who's dyslexic is good at maths, but it seems to be a prevailing metanarative in the NT world and as they're pretty much in charge and hold the purse strings what they think is what we will get regardless.

    I supose for me I would like it if there were more people who inhabit liminal spaces, who see in shades of grey, I find black and white thinking really difficult to process its like being slapped in the face with a wet fish, I end up with a brain fart, not knowing what to say or feeling "shut up" by someones certainty that theres only one way to see things or experience the world and that to say otherwise could cause them to mentally explode with the power of an uncertainty. I don't want to inadvertantly give someone a melt down, because I don't just see a piece of material, but the warp and weft of the fabric too. 

  • Hi CatWoman, 

    Thank you for writing this post, I genuinely found this quite interesting. I certainly don't think that is just you.

    As we all know Autism isn't one flavour, and the way you're describing your thinking - long-form, non-linear, pattern-spotting, needing depth and space to work through ideas rather than quick exchanges, - is just as valid as any other cognitive style people bring here. If the general rhythm of the community has settled in a way that favours one type of processing over another, that's genuinely going to leave people out, even without anyone meaning to.

    Also, for what it's worth - this post is a great example of exactly the kind of contribution that's valuable here. It's not "too much," it's the depth some of us need space for.

    Please do not think that your contributions are not valued, on the contrary they are as important as any body else's within the community.

    All the best

  • From reading and occasionally participating in discussions here on the Community Forum, my eyes have been opened to just how many different types of neurodivergent experiences there are! But note the 'occasionally' in the previous sentence. I often end up muting someone's opening post, either because I can't relate to their experience, or I find it too upsetting to think about, or just don't have a meaningful response to give. I do try to offer helpful comments where and when I can, especially if I have experience of a shared problem.

    I don't know how prevalent ADHD is amongst the membership of this Forum, as to be honest I don't try to analyse people's conversation style too much. It does sound like something that a lot of folks get referred for either initially or after a diagnosis for ASD, but beyond that I've no clue. As a rule, I try my best to treat people here with respect and not take offence to how they may respond to me.

    Years ago, I went through an online version of the Myers-Briggs Personality Test and landed on being INFJ. At the time, it made total sense as I've always known I was introverted, and for a while I followed a lot of INFJ and MBTP-related groups and blogs. Eventually, though, I realised I was getting hung up on the label, and merely liking and sharing stuff online wasn't actually helping me. (I went through a similar journey with Atheism back in the 2000s, and in hindsight I think it was the same trap, of thinking that 'finding my tribe' was an end in itself. Oh, and of course I went through a cycle of being Very Online around the same time, which I've now weaned myself off of.)

    Perhaps because I've been a geek since the 1980s, thanks to home computers and later dial-up access to online services, I'm of a generation that understands and can use technology but haven't been immersed in it to the point of now knowing any other way? I've now scaled back my internet and device usage quite a bit, and only when or where it makes sense. I'm quite envious of those who are good with 'analogue' media, writing and drawing and such, as that's an ability that I've sadly lost of lot of. Hopefully one day I'll be able to do so again!

  • I personally think we need to stear clear of categorising each other too much. There is a saying that if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. Yes we have traits in common but we are all totally individual and have different strengths etc. Doesn't matter whether there is an ADHD diagnosis on top of that. One AuDHD person is not like another. Yes they share a few more traits. But ADHD varies vastly in the same way autism does. For some is externally obvious, for others it's massively internal.

    I agree. Stereotyping ADHD, as well as autism, isn’t helpful.

  • I don’t think I explicitly said (recently) that your contributions are valued, but they are. You may feel you don’t belong here, but to me, you do.

    I’m sad that you think that about AuDHD here. The use of emojis isn’t linked to AuDHD as far as I know, and there are variations in how ADHD in autistic people manifests. Sometimes I use emojis because they can express something that I can’t easily put into words, but I don’t identify with how you have characterised AuDHD.

    The NAS isn’t geared towards AuDHD. It’s primary role is to be supportive to Autistic people and their families.

    In what ways do you want people to be accommodating?

    The assumption that communication on this website is easy for others may not be correct because you won’t know the effort people are having to make to put down thoughts unless they say.

    I don’t always have the capacity to respond at all to you or to other people. I have my own struggles and just because I don’t explicitly say, it doesn’t mean I’m not struggling and don’t have the capacity to communicate in that moment.

  • I currently don't think there's any danger that AuDHD will become the over all type. Or that services will all end up being geared up for it. None of them are geared up for it - believe me, I've tried to find the support. 

    I am surprised you feel like it's the main type here. I would have said there was a variety. 

    I don't think it is just AuDHD people that like things digitally. You will find there are AuDHDers that like pen and paper and you will find people that only have an autism diagnosis that like things digitally. People also refer to this as a generational thing but again you will find older people that like tech and younger people that like pen and paper.

    I personally think we need to stear clear of categorising each other too much. There is a saying that if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. Yes we have traits in common but we are all totally individual and have different strengths etc. Doesn't matter whether there is an ADHD diagnosis on top of that. One AuDHD person is not like another. Yes they share a few more traits. But ADHD varies vastly in the same way autism does. For some is externally obvious, for others it's massively internal.

    What would making more of an effort to accommodate different types look like to you? I'm intrigued. I absolutely want to accommodate other people and would never want to make someone feel unwelcome here. I've spent enough of my life feeling like that. But this should also be a free space for me to talk about my own experiences and state my own opinions, which yes do come from being AuDHD because that is what I am. So how does somebody do both? Particularly, baring in mind that a lot of us struggle with awareness of how we come across and may misunderstand meaning in posts etc.

    It would be useful to know what would make you feel accommodated for. But also how you feel this could be done more widely. As what accommodates you will be totally different for somebody else.