How do you protect yourself?

I was thinking more of things like when the Romans conquered Brttain and people were disarmed, what was lost? I'm sure things like staff fighting continued and that it was fairly similar to fighting with a war spear, spears were far more common than swords.

Again, after 1066, the Normans disarmed the population, what did we lose then?

I don't think we should devalue Eastern Martial Arts, just value Western ones more. I was fascinated watching The 300, it's one of the few times I've seen Western Martial Arts goven the same cinematic treatment as Eastern ones.

Obviously fighting styles will depend on your equipment, but we know so little from before the early modern era of how Westerner's fought. 

I wonder which came first the philosophy or the fighting? Or did they evolve together, like Parcour has? Do we know what if any philosphy went with Western Martial Arts?

I understand there is some interest and practice in late medieval and renaissance martial arts based on  a few books from the period TheCatWoman .

Yes Greco-Roman wrestling may be seen as something of a continuation of the ancient arts ArchaeC 

Devaluing Eastern equivalents? Perhaps.

The arts that have their roots in Taoism are particularly interesting because they come with a philosophy that, to me anyway, goes beyond the pragmatic physical combat element of many others.

Yes, how one carries oneself does make a difference in respect of the choice bullies make about which of the socially different they choose to pick on.  Not appearing vulnerable or indeed constituting a risk to the aggressor makes a difference in this. This at a bit of a balance as one also needs to be aware of "tall poppy syndrome" where standing out too much can draw attention to aggressors too.

So much of it is socio-cultural based upon how much time one has for practice and how risky it is for the elite to have skilled warriors wandering about who might upset the status quo...

Evolution of weaponry also means many arts are lost - or perhaps tactics are kept but shift in the means of their expression.

So, on a lighter note - Morris Dancing?  Hehe the evolution of stick defence?

TheCatWoman said:

One of the things I'd love to know is what Western martial arts have we lost? We must have had them, even quarter staff fighting, why do we devalue that but value the Eastern equalvents?

Does Ancient Greek and Roman wrestling and fighting count? 

Renaissance art scenes illustrate fighting with swords and poles. I did fencing at school and it remains popular in some places. I found it invaluable in helping my posture as I used to try to ‘shrink away’ at school.

He did at first when he was practicing, but when he stopped he became child like, but I think there were far more complex issues going on.

I did bits a pieces of martial arts for a few years, I wanted to learn to defend myself and never be a mans punch bag ever again, it was part of the healing journey for me. I've never had to use the skills I learnt, thankfully, I think peope who've done martial arts often project a sort of confidence that makes others think your more trouble that it's worth to bother you.

One of the things I'd love to know is what Western martial arts have we lost? We must have had them, even quarter staff fighting, why do we devalue that but value the Eastern equalvents?

scuse the 1/2 jokey question TheCatWoman did he come across as well adjusted?  :-)  Notwithstanding the possibility of "fake it 'til you make it" what lies underneath people's facade when we get underneath immediate impressions can be interesting to say the least...  same for many tai chi exponents in my experience!

Sometime's I'm deliberately weird at people, it makes them go away usually, sometimes they get hostile or even aggressive, but on the whole if people think you're mad, they believe that you're unpredictable and might do something painful to them. 

It can be, my ex husband did it as both a meditative exercise and as a martial art.

TheCatWoman said:

can come across as well adjusted

hehehehehe :-) tai chi can be a very good martial art too ;-)

I think maybe we need to redefine our relationship to the word DISCIPLINE, its not crime and punishment, well it can be, but it's more about training yourself into good habits, which is why people who've studied martial arts can come across as well adjusted, partly its having an outlet for negative emotions, theres nothing quite like a session with a punch bag or kick pads for releasing tension and partly it's because I think it teaches you to see the insecurities and weakness of others and of course knowing you can physically defend yourself helps too.

Yoga or tai chi are disciplines, study is a discipline, music is too, it's anything that you set aside time for, regualarly and don't allow to be disrupted.

I agree. Those things can enable survival, but they aren’t enough.

I get what you mean about wanting to have your own voice that comes from other things pietro_21 

I have come to see (hehe or be happily self deluded) that to have my own voice that comes from other things I get one if it comes from another place inside me.

I think that this is that sense of being a different person that you allude to.

I concur completely that the experiences that you and I and I suspect millions of others too have of being let down by a system that fails people, lack of support,encouragement so that one feels invisible and excluded.  Yes there are barriers.

The challenge is to seek support and when appropriate accept it.

The challenge is to engage with the system and make it work better for both for oneself and for others.

The challenge is to engage with opportunities for self activity and self expression.

To make oneself visible and to challenge for opportunities which arise.

Yep its hard and I absolutely acknowledge the temptation to give up - and yet each time there's something that I need/want to live for, and so on we go....  

If life was a computer game say, one would start by small wins over small challenges.  Gradually as skill and confidence developed greater challenges etc etc. 

Of course computer games are often "fun" and given all the *** out there it can be that one loses sight of that in life.

Find some small wins and build from there.  Organise for a better future with others.

I think maybe doing this and looking for the fun in life can also be an important part of defending oneself.

Yes I agree Phased, it's a kind of masking when you intentional enforce this on emotions in situations. I have learned this the hard way extreme detachment and tackling socialising from different angles, I learned that my own context of understanding myself is also relative to the people I'm with and different to every person I meet. This might sound obvious but it was a revelation compared to some of the things I believe and this is it because largely most things are based on belief.

How long you can sustain or tolerate a particular belief, which is why it helps when you have a practice, that way you are always discovering and relecting on different aspects of yourself and your experience (and neither are everything or the whole answer). But the questions thrwon up are sometimes really beautiful. 

So I think what I want is to only have my own voice, but a voice comes from other things. When I was first diagnosed I wrote down my thoughts on difrent days, some of it reads like the voice of a different person then. Not that long ago;

Most of all..

I feel

Let down

By a system which fails people

By a lack of support or not being encouraged through activity and expression

Being made to feel invisible all day everyday. Excluded from opportunities. 

I have observed people who face real barriers, people whose experiences of education or work are deliberately made more arduous.

You are right pietro_21 however I have learned the hard way that emotional control and emotional insight are different issues.

I suppressed insight into my own emotional landscape in order to enable me to navigate life - maybe by necesity to the demands i felt I had to meet.  Probably because I didn't have "emotional intelligence" for myself and others.  Eventually this came back to bite me when I realised that I didn't know how I felt unless it was metaphorically hitting me over the head with a gold plated brick!

So I would maybe highlight discriminating emotional control from emotional intelligence and understanding how they intersect in my reply to you.  This I think makes for a healthier life.

Coincidentally I spent a lot of time today reflecting on why I "beat myself up" about how I deal with the world and to some extent blame myself for my inability to navigate life more successfully.

Yes a practical approach that is "grounded" in understanding how one's body feels and how this relates to one's emotional and behavioural context is what I do to "defend myself".

Also as someone wiser than me once put it "doing the same thing and expecting different results is..." Oh yes I've been there myself!

I reckon you get it :-)

best wishes

Some days I feel like I am just attracting all of the awful energy off people. I have a similar thing to you that I inherited from both parents, in that I just can’t be lied to, I see right through everyone I meet. For people who don’t know me I guess it is uncomfortable or  if they think they are clever this can be a real problem.

Is this not social media/with a cause?! I think anything which is mostly pictures which is also training itself to show you only those pictures you most want to see is highly unhealthy. 

All these things seem like tiny steps compared to the types of problems we are dealing with.

Some days I remember ans understand everything, problem solving seems boundless. Other times I’m caught up on every detail or every little emotion. Kind of the opposite of flow.

I find people who I have known who studied martial arts have a lot of discipline when it comes to emotional control. 
my issue may be forgetting the practical element and looking for a quick fix, even though I follow routines it is my own dissatisfaction at the results, or others behaviours that leads me to states like this.

Simple question pietro_21 on a complex topic.

As you highlight avoidance is best however a hermit like existence is not a practical solution.

Violent self-defence MAY have some legitimacy however for obvious social reasons is non-sustainable both for individuals and society.  As a bit of a disclaimer here for my background I trained for many years in martial arts including being awarded 2 black belts.

So then the issue of defending ones well being from a more complex level than that of physical harm from the obvious forms of attack.

I can give my perspective upon this that I think the answer may be in exploring further too.

Seeking support from others to defend one's own well-being is an important key.

This was something of a seed-change for me to acknowledge as implicit in understanding of my own vulnerability.

Support from others I was very fortunate to have, developing this to be less necessary took a lot of tenacity and energy to do - especially since it takes time to discern who and/or what and/or when works in this respect.

I would say that before I could defend my well-being I also had to gather insight into what well-being might actually be for me - especially since I was coming from a strong sense of "unwellness" that I had lived with for many years

To get to this point required developing skills of analysing my own body for signs of health beyond those of "normal" physical health into gaining "interoception" of correlates with mental states that my body gives insight into.  This then developed into the capacity of increased self-monitoring and self regulation.

I guess what I am saying is that we need help to identify what it is we are missing and from lived experiences work towards strategies that we self generate to be "new" people.

For me it was recognising how my posture, how I breathed etc and from this how such physical frameworks correlated with my mental framework too.

This is the domain of linking the body with the mind and the emotions (and dare one say it the spirit too).  There are many therapies that explore this.  They aren't easy but by my evidence they can be learned.

I believe this helps defend well-being by establishing what it was in us that is resonant with a sense of health and personal values.

I just try and be as good a person as I can, I might be a tiny pebble, but if I can make a ripple and someone else then makes their own little ripple, the together we become an unstoppable wave.

I don't try and understand the horrible things peole do, I'm just glad to not have the mentality that can understand it.

I've got a fairly good BS detector and it's always switched on.

I stay way from social media, apart from here, from everything I hear it's a quagmire that I dont; want to be involved with. 

I really understand what you mean about the world feeling cold, hard and manual once the veils lift and how deeply the injustice and lack of truth can hurt.

For me, non-violent self-defence of my wellbeing looks like being careful about what I let in, keeping support like therapy (I’m really glad you kept yours  mine helps me so much) and holding onto animals horses, cats where things still feel real and honest.

I know it doesn’t fix things but it helps me feel genuine connection that feels safe and I don’t have to question.