Article in the Independent about this possibly becoming a new category:
Article in the Independent about this possibly becoming a new category:
Profound autism, is it real, or is it just intellectual disability with certain autistic features? People with intellectual disability, who are also talkative and extrovert and keen on social interaction are not called 'profoundly neurotypical'.
This sort of thing, like assignment of species in human evolution, tends to switch between 'lumpers' and 'splitters'. The 'spectrum' saw lumpers in the ascendant, perhaps the pendulum is swinging the other way?
Profound autism, is it real, or is it just intellectual disability with certain autistic features
I was thinking about this, I think you want to see an example to prove it's existence?
I would reccommend viewing 'Inside our autistic minds', I think the first episode, it features Murray, who is I think, profoundly autistic, non-verbal but it is obvious he is also highly intelligent and thoughtful too.
This would go against the profound autism definition though. Low iq is one of suggested criteria.
oh... I see a problem and my mistake, Sorry.
The roots of being non-verbal in my personal experience is that when I am feeling profoundly autistic myself I am unable to communicate, including verbally. I had concluded perhaps wrongly that this was what others were experiencing too.
Perhaps there is an intersection between inability to communicate from the effect of autism and intellectual development in "that direction".
Perhaps some people are able to "work around this" and develop intellectually and via this communication their skills.
Or their intellectual capacity being already present meant that alternative communication skills developed.
So much of this involves the environment (including stimulus response) that individuals grow up in and inhabit.
It all seems a bit confusing to me in terms of root cause analysis.
Also it seems to me to be unfair to combine intellect and autism when making a statement about what autism is. Possibly an unfair bias by me as after all things like social communication etc are part of the definition.
Ah well, perhaps this all will be stimulus to decisions that are meaningfully helpful for people.
Profound autism includes intellectual disability though. This is the point. Profound autism isn't just being non verbal. It is needing significant support due to extremely limited understanding. Someone who is non verbal but has good understanding isn't profoundly autistic.
I think this is why it is important that if they do bring this in that there is an iq cut off. As someone with intelligence is not profoundly autistic and are very capable with adjustments e.g. another way to communicate.
Agreed Cinnabar_wing
You've helped me see better.
And can answer Martin 's question better too to reflect my perspective on this based on personal observations
Profound autism is not defined in concert with intellectual disability, in my mind at least, these are separate issues.
Yes, you are right for the article. I was just trying to think of people who I think should be included in the term. It shows how important research is.
EDIT: It is such a shame that people will look down and assume low intelligence if one can't talk, but it's sometimes just a case of not being able to communicate your ideas. If Stephen Hawking didn't have the equipment to speak, the world would have missed out on his genius. I think there must be many autistic people like that.
Yes, you are right for the article. I was just trying to think of people who I think should be included in the term. It shows how important research is.
EDIT: It is such a shame that people will look down and assume low intelligence if one can't talk, but it's sometimes just a case of not being able to communicate your ideas. If Stephen Hawking didn't have the equipment to speak, the world would have missed out on his genius. I think there must be many autistic people like that.
oh... I see a problem and my mistake, Sorry.
The roots of being non-verbal in my personal experience is that when I am feeling profoundly autistic myself I am unable to communicate, including verbally. I had concluded perhaps wrongly that this was what others were experiencing too.
Perhaps there is an intersection between inability to communicate from the effect of autism and intellectual development in "that direction".
Perhaps some people are able to "work around this" and develop intellectually and via this communication their skills.
Or their intellectual capacity being already present meant that alternative communication skills developed.
So much of this involves the environment (including stimulus response) that individuals grow up in and inhabit.
It all seems a bit confusing to me in terms of root cause analysis.
Also it seems to me to be unfair to combine intellect and autism when making a statement about what autism is. Possibly an unfair bias by me as after all things like social communication etc are part of the definition.
Ah well, perhaps this all will be stimulus to decisions that are meaningfully helpful for people.
Profound autism includes intellectual disability though. This is the point. Profound autism isn't just being non verbal. It is needing significant support due to extremely limited understanding. Someone who is non verbal but has good understanding isn't profoundly autistic.
I think this is why it is important that if they do bring this in that there is an iq cut off. As someone with intelligence is not profoundly autistic and are very capable with adjustments e.g. another way to communicate.
Agreed Cinnabar_wing
You've helped me see better.
And can answer Martin 's question better too to reflect my perspective on this based on personal observations
Profound autism is not defined in concert with intellectual disability, in my mind at least, these are separate issues.
