a game of social dynamics chess

I have this problem.i am over 100 on the CATQ test, I don’t consider my self to be high masking but this is moderate-high and very energy consuming. Extra energy I don’t have to give out. The workplace is designed around what I used to think were called extroverts what I now know to be neurotypical. The problem is so pervasive that any questioning of these flawed systems is viewed as a mutiny. All you can do is stay quiet, even then they (NT) will probably get rid of you. I must have lost 10+ jobs asking very simple questions which could not be answered. If everyone is complicit how can I perform to a high degree? How will others see that a company or team can be performing MUCH better? It’s like working towards nothing, so you have to have some coping mechanisms in order to survive in such environments (under what is technically hostility, sometimes bordering on discrimination). I have had big issues with this every day of my adult life (with people not wanting to employ me, being plain rude to my face, or trying to get rid of me), if I want to work in an office I cannot show my complete identity - which leaves me in a position whereby I am walked over, perceived as weak or stupid or inexperienced. I compare it a bit to playing a game with a smart 5 year old child. They don’t like losing, they move the goalposts if the think they might be wrong. The rely on the support of those around them even if their aims are mindless. Huddle together like they are at a football match. I’m really tired of giving the benefit of the doubt to people who don’t respect people as people. Also seeing that working really is going towards nowhere except for making the wrong people richer. I realised a while ago that simply engaging in the workplace is also putting myself at a disadvantage (in an environment which has been offset).

pietro_21 said:

I must have lost 10+ jobs asking very simple questions which could not be answered.

Can I ask why, in light of the fact that you know asking these questions will probably lose you your job, do you keep asking them? Track record shows this is a very bad idea.

pietro_21 said:

I compare it a bit to playing a game with a smart 5 year old child. They don’t like losing

They normally hold the power (as far as employment goes) so sometimes it helps to let them win. You gain nothing from your approach but have a lot to lose.

pietro_21 said:

I realised a while ago that simply engaging in the workplace is also putting myself at a disadvantage

I think it is healthier to consider that learning the rules and following them is a much safer approach. 

The workplace is setup for the 99.4% of workers who are not autistic (assuming 3% of people are autistic and only 20% work) which seems reasonable - we are the outsiders trying to gain access to this when we want a job so learning the rules that govern the vast majority is a more reliable approach than expecting all of them to adapt to us.

Yes it sucks, but if you need to pay the bills to live then is makes a lot more sense than always fighting the system.

All in my opinion only of course.

The work place is rigged. I’m a civil and reasonable person Iain. I do have quite a scientific point of view which I would like to share insights of my experience work others. 

the questions which lost me me jobs were not always the same, if I am truly realistic I can see these were never really openings at all and those employers went to all lengths not to let me know anything about the business (which is unfortunate when it was my job to know) and also on some cases not pay me when the work was carried out as per description.

i have learned several things, the most obvious being that there are time wasters and also people who want an easy life. Which means from my perspective that I have to keep things simple - for them. 

I am finding it really difficult at the moment because my life has been seriously impacted by their behaviour. I have professional qualifications and degrees and work hard but teams of young men sometimes female managers go out of the not to employ me. So wherever o am they limit me.

Everyone needs to open their eyes to what is going on as it will affect many of their children as well.  I have had people get up and walk out of my interviews before I have spoken. 
To be a ‘team player’ I shouldn’t need to behave like an aggressive ignorant pig. It’s unprofessional, it’s widespread,

The work place is rigged. I’m a civil and reasonable person Iain. I do have quite a scientific point of view which I would like to share insights of my experience work others. 

the questions which lost me me jobs were not always the same, if I am truly realistic I can see these were never really openings at all and those employers went to all lengths not to let me know anything about the business (which is unfortunate when it was my job to know) and also on some cases not pay me when the work was carried out as per description.

i have learned several things, the most obvious being that there are time wasters and also people who want an easy life. Which means from my perspective that I have to keep things simple - for them. 

I am finding it really difficult at the moment because my life has been seriously impacted by their behaviour. I have professional qualifications and degrees and work hard but teams of young men sometimes female managers go out of the not to employ me. So wherever o am they limit me.

Everyone needs to open their eyes to what is going on as it will affect many of their children as well.  I have had people get up and walk out of my interviews before I have spoken. 
To be a ‘team player’ I shouldn’t need to behave like an aggressive ignorant pig. It’s unprofessional, it’s widespread,

I hear you, and oit's sad that there is a fear of disclosing for, i am guessing, a fear that it may be seen as inconvenient to others. recent months, i've been trying to educate everyone around me that i indeed think very different, but also how people are often stuck in their ways. i think me being autistic gives me a great advantage to notice others that also are, and help  to educate those around me how to be more flexible in their own minds. 

i think in regards to employment, the best thing is trying to have a conversation that you say you have autism, but also saying what your strengths are, and where you will need help to be a better worker. but it needs to be worded in a positive light, so that it is gentler on NT ears. and then if you can, finding someone who can be a soundboard for how to phrase things is really helpful! it means you can say what you want to say unfiltered, and someone can help you word things in a way that can be more understood. or if it is a situation requiring a spontaneous response, to say that you need to think about it, or take some time, and then go to that sounding board person later to talk out the situation is really helpful.

It's a shame we have to do so much extra work to adapt in NT environments though, and they don't even realise it. if they were to step in our brains, they'd probably collapse.

I hear your frustration too! I am freelancing atm but when iwas employed i faced many issues from my manager for simply asking questions. but i explained to them that if you want me to work even better, i need to understand well. And she still didn't so i eventually left. it is hard, and perhaps why i am mostly freelance. however, ironically through masking and struggling, i've developed a high perception for people and for conversation, and can pretty much manage any social situation now, more than neurotypicals even, because i had to. neurotypicals get the choice. i don't. but to make it less of a struggle, i try to have fun. i treat socialising like a puzzle to solve, and i try new chess moves to see how it will make people react, and make a note of their response. it has become scientific in a very fun way - and i would never know that if i was not autistic. i don't condone masking by saying this - masking isn't good, but I do believe context is important, and with much help from people that really understand autism, they can help with knowing how to navigate according to contexts, and also help to find the spaces where you can fully be yourself.

at the same time, autism is different to everyone and i dont want to assume your struggles, i only want to share mine, yours is definitely valid too! (also if i was employed, i'd probably face more issues, and in my very current state, being employed full-time would probably not be a good idea haha)

Right about adapting yes, but the majority also need to improve their own awareness of how others might interpret their behaviours. Other marginal groups have rights when they disclose how they self identify at interview. I can say I now consider autism a disability but as not enough is known or taken on board by employers it’s likely to spook them or go against our favour. My issue is partly about how money is being made as it is often born out of the detriment caused to others. I asked a sibling who is professional and has adhd she told me not to disclose it. 

pietro_21 said:

Everyone needs to open their eyes to what is going on

I would say that most people see what is going on but don't see it as the problem. If you think that the 0.6% of the workforce who are autistic probably only have a smallish percentage who find the rules hard to live with then we are talking about 1 person in a 1,000 who is suffering because of this. 

In real terms this is statistically insignificant the the management so they will ignore it - there is no shortage of other people to replace you who are not autistic.

In reality we have no power to demand changes, not many rights to exercise to try to get adjustments and little personal capacity to cope with the stresses all this causes.

Adding all this up, if we want to work we need to be the ones adapting because it is in our interests. We can continue to push for reform in labour laws but I suspect that is actually going to go backwards soon.

I see it as a matter of survival. Adapt of fail. There is no knight in shining armour who will ride in and fix it all for us so we have to look out for ourselves.

I get where you are coming from with your frustrations - I have been there in the past and feel your pain.