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A Triple Empathy Problem - think about it.

Phased

Readers of this may be aware of Sir Baron Cohen's work of the problem of empathy for autistics from 2009 and beyond.

Readers of this may also be aware of and have lived experiences of the Double Empathy Problem as described by Dr Damian Milton in 2012.

Recently I have been thinking that as well as including double empathy problems between neurodiverse and neurotypical maybe the model could do with expanding again.

There is a third empathy problem that is also in the mix:

"be kind to yourself", get to know the neurodivergent you" etc.are the sort of advice and practice that I encounter post diagnosis.  These are problems of empathising with oneself as neurodivergent which many of us work so hard to overcome.

I suggest promotion of awareness of the triple empathy problem.

ThinkingNeutral faceVulcan

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  • Thanks to the discussion with  and  
    I've come up with this to send to Dr Milton
    Thoughts on it and discussion that follows sought please :-)
    "Dear Dr Damian Milton
     
    Please excuse unsolicited e-mail however your work on double empathy has been fundamental to my thinking of late and would like to "run by you" where this brings me to.
     
    I suspect this thinking might not be novel.  If I can come up with it then others including yourself may have already done so long before me!
     
    Nonetheless:
     
    Perhaps here is a third empathy problem that is also critically in the mix?
     
    "be kind to yourself", get to know the neurodivergent you" etc.are the sort of advice and practice that I and other neurodivergent people encounter post diagnosis.  These are problems of empathising with oneself as neurodivergent which although hard to overcome appear to be important for progress.
     
    Discussion with a neurodiverse friend has suggested "identifying the cause of the problem as being the high masking self not empathising with the ND self and vice versa" - itself a dual empathy problem.  Albeit an "internal" one for the autistic person.   
     
    I think the dual empathy problem is normally applied to two people tho' - is that the case?
     
    Maybe the lack of self empathy as outlined also fits with a presentation that fits evidence that autism is misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder?
     
    (On a linked point I am drawn to consider that neurotypical people are perhaps less inclined to have an empathy problem with themselves as neurotypical society validates how they feel more readily than it does neurodiverse.)
     
    Therefore I suggest highlighting the struggle autistic people have in empathising with them-self by coining and promoting the term "triple empathy problem"
     
    I acknowledge that this may be an inference I am drawing however this is how it both "appears" to me by observation and what i have learned to consider by reading about and discussion of the topic.
     
    I recognise, as another autistic friend has pointed out has pointed out to me, is that in effect what I am proposing may well be folding "internalised ablism" into an already excellent model. 
     
    I am proposing however that it is so important that it be given the same priority and acknowledgment as empathy by and between neurodiverse and neurotypical people.
     
    Therefore the "triple empathy problem"  
     
    Please could you share your thoughts with me on this?
     
    Sincerely"
Reply
  • Thanks to the discussion with  and  
    I've come up with this to send to Dr Milton
    Thoughts on it and discussion that follows sought please :-)
    "Dear Dr Damian Milton
     
    Please excuse unsolicited e-mail however your work on double empathy has been fundamental to my thinking of late and would like to "run by you" where this brings me to.
     
    I suspect this thinking might not be novel.  If I can come up with it then others including yourself may have already done so long before me!
     
    Nonetheless:
     
    Perhaps here is a third empathy problem that is also critically in the mix?
     
    "be kind to yourself", get to know the neurodivergent you" etc.are the sort of advice and practice that I and other neurodivergent people encounter post diagnosis.  These are problems of empathising with oneself as neurodivergent which although hard to overcome appear to be important for progress.
     
    Discussion with a neurodiverse friend has suggested "identifying the cause of the problem as being the high masking self not empathising with the ND self and vice versa" - itself a dual empathy problem.  Albeit an "internal" one for the autistic person.   
     
    I think the dual empathy problem is normally applied to two people tho' - is that the case?
     
    Maybe the lack of self empathy as outlined also fits with a presentation that fits evidence that autism is misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder?
     
    (On a linked point I am drawn to consider that neurotypical people are perhaps less inclined to have an empathy problem with themselves as neurotypical society validates how they feel more readily than it does neurodiverse.)
     
    Therefore I suggest highlighting the struggle autistic people have in empathising with them-self by coining and promoting the term "triple empathy problem"
     
    I acknowledge that this may be an inference I am drawing however this is how it both "appears" to me by observation and what i have learned to consider by reading about and discussion of the topic.
     
    I recognise, as another autistic friend has pointed out has pointed out to me, is that in effect what I am proposing may well be folding "internalised ablism" into an already excellent model. 
     
    I am proposing however that it is so important that it be given the same priority and acknowledgment as empathy by and between neurodiverse and neurotypical people.
     
    Therefore the "triple empathy problem"  
     
    Please could you share your thoughts with me on this?
     
    Sincerely"
Children