Religion and Spirituality

Interesting thread. The last National Statistics figures put Christanity at 46% in 2021 in the country but we had COVID then. 50% = majority usually. Some age groups in the church have been in some quiet revival and especially among the 18-24 year old age who are turning back to God. Interesting America is at 62% Christian according to PEW research and UK are often their ally;  I thnk things should stay as they are. Even more secular countries like France are turning to Christanity now and baptisms are up. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/263349/france-sees-record-10384-adult-baptisms-in-2025-45-percent-increase-as-young-catholics-lead-revival

It will be interesting when the next statistics come out. You haven't mentioned why you want things to change, are there areas of concern. I think the church can do things to help themselves which I wrote here to try and save money and make more diverse services if possible-

To worship Christmas these days with councils is getting harder and harder. There is meant to a new church that Bishop Gulli talks of. She is a lovely woman.

https://www.racheltestimony.com/2025/08/my-ideas-on-reducing-church-costs-today.html

www.racheltestimony.com/.../open-letter-to-catholic-churchs-today.html

RachelO said:

The last National Statistics figures put Christanity at 46% in 2021 in the country but we had COVID then. 50% = majority usually.

Can you clarify what the 50% is of what group please?

The stats from the graph below show only 32% of people believe in any god in the UK. If your figure is 50% of these people then it means it is only 16% of people in the country are christians in a meaningful sense (ie believers rather than ones who just use the label because they were raised that way).

Tricky things statistics.

It is from here- The National Statistics 2021 cenus data. 

• For the first time in a census of England and Wales, less than half of the population (46.2%, 27.5 million people) described themselves as “Christian”, a 13.1 percentage point decrease from 59.3% (33.3 million) in 2011; despite this decrease, “Christian” remained the most common response to the religion question.

  www.ons.gov.uk/.../census2021

It is from here- The National Statistics 2021 cenus data. 

• For the first time in a census of England and Wales, less than half of the population (46.2%, 27.5 million people) described themselves as “Christian”, a 13.1 percentage point decrease from 59.3% (33.3 million) in 2011; despite this decrease, “Christian” remained the most common response to the religion question.

  www.ons.gov.uk/.../census2021

I am not sure what you mean, but you raised about Paul and how perhaps he might not that compassionate in style I thought and so I thought I would say that. God obviously thought that was necessary in the Bible what Paul wrote. They all work together. Today I was telling my mum about love in the Bible now I left the bit where people should give to charity etc as she does it and I didn't her to think I had any judgement of her. It didn't apply to her she does more than enough already. So you can read some things in the Bible but if you are not got that problem it doesn't apply to you as such and may apply to some like struggling with an addiction to viewing adult material they don't want to online. I have come across people like that online trying to change and so advise on sensaulity doesn't apply to them so much and others if they want to can take note.

Blame God, he's the one who's being harsh and cruel, not me? I find this sort of thing really hard to understand, it's all carrot and stick, but usually with more stick than carrot.

I read something today about Paul about his writings on love in the Book of Corinthians. To me this shows again a different side of Paul about love as some people find him quite harsh. Sometimes as well you have to remember that preaching for some can be a form of acting as well like a day job and a bit different at home and writing acting. Although, what he wrote was inspired by the Holy Spirit so was necessary to and not actually perhaps all of his style. Sometimes when I want to do something and am nervous I think of my faith and just do it and it strenghtens, but it is not my fundamental personality.

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.  It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.  It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres" (1 Corinthians 13:4-7).

I am not under any illusion about the political reality of the world. I agree that compassion is not sympathy - it can be all kinds of things that call for action and that can also mean walking with someone (metaphorically) and working for their needs through engagement with the public, with agencies and politicians at home and abroad, to give people a better future. 

Some may dismiss compassion as fanciful, but I do not want to compromise my values. Just because something is not easy to obtain, does not mean you shouldn’t hold on to your beliefs and proclaim them loud and clear.  

We desperately need compassionate and wise leaders. I don’t know what sort of things Jeremy Corben’s new Party will stand for as there hasn’t been news of his intended policies.  I like some of the things he did in the past, but I found some of his past behaviours problematic and perhaps he didn’t always make the wisest decisions. I would never trust Starmer’s Labour again either. I cannot understand his thinking around the decision to take money from the most vulnerable and needy. 

The wider world politically is a terrifying reality, so I believe it is also important to have leaders trained and gifted in rhetoric so they can hold their own when communicating to the public, and when talking to bullies like Trump and Vance. The inequality between the richest country in the world and the poorest is quite disgusting. US aid has been stopped, yet it would take just a tiny percentage of its wealth to save lives and give people a better future. 

The disregard for human lives and suffering is very frightening. 

It would be good to have some wise and compassionate leaders, but like you Iain, I doubt if we'll get any and even if we did, there would still be the rest of the world to deal with. Have you ever known a time when leaders aren't self serving?

I think that you're making a common mistake about compassion though, it's not sympathy or dithering and hand wringing, it can be as much a kick up the bum, or some home truths. Compassionate people are just as capable as anyone else of going to war, especially to defend ourselves and others, we just might think about it a lot more and not want to look the mother of a dead soldier in the eye and say they died for nothing. 

Kate Kestrel said:

We need compassionate, wise leaders

This is a utopian ideal but consider the times we live in.

We have a deeply polarised population, mostly between conservative types (small c) and liberals who see very different ways of dealing with issues. It seems neither side is interested in considering the others side of the arguement.

America has it even worse.

We are also in a dangerous situation with foreign agressors like Russia, manipulation from China and brute force attempts from the USA to make us act in ways they want.

I don't think kind and compassionate can cope with these pressures. It is a bit like in wartime, a compassionate leade just doesn't have the guts to take the steps necessary to look after the countries interest.

Politics is pretty rotten through and through though - I doubt we will see any non self-serving leaders or parties in my lifetime.

If there is a solution, you can bet the government would shut it down hard using anti-terrorism laws as it is about anyone protesting against genocide at the moment. They will not let go quietly or easily.

Was this a council library? That’s really sad. I’m  sure no one would really object to Christmas decorations! 

We need compassionate, wise leaders - and to get them we’ve got to vote for them. I’m hoping that the new Party that Jeremy Corbyn is setting up can join with the Green Party (and other ethical independents) and that we can get a good Coalition of decent political figure together who might do better than the mess we have now. This society is only working well for a minority of people now - and we need to make it work better for the majority - including those on the margins of society. The Tory Party is never going to offer this as they want to maintain the status quo - and Starmer’s Labour is so far to the right now that there’s not a huge difference between them and the Tories. I’ll never trust Starmer’s Govt again as when they needed money for the economy the first people they tried to take money off was the disabled - especially those with mental health problems and autistic people. Truly despicable to want to do that. 

RachelO said:

Religion can help define an individual’s value system and give them rules to live by and norms. Norms reflect patterned behaviour that gives rise to normative expectations about what ought to be done.

That sounds awfully like "masking for NTs". At least the rules are written down, though.

I have just seen this. I like to read about Saints in the early church like Saint Augustine and his work on conflict resolution and the work of Paul. I find these handouts really nice. Also, Timothy some say is written by Paul and it shows a more compassionate side of Paul.I found these online.A like some earlly Christian history and Paul was involved in that, the move from partaking of bread in a unknown private place to church buildings and how that moved.

 https://stanthonyshrine.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Temple-and-New-Testament.pdf    

https://stanthonyshrine.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Temple-Ministry.pdf

China I think is growing in Chrstanity

I'm not sure there are any, although if I had to guess I'd say China and maybe North Korea?

Have you ever read any early Christian histiory?

Religion can help define an individual’s value system and give them rules to live by and norms. Norms reflect patterned behaviour that gives rise to normative expectations about what ought to be done.

Christianity values come from the Beatitudes there are 8 of those that Jesus said on the Sermon on the Mount and I love these. Also, the values are the two greatest commandments Lord said was Love God first and to treat our neighbour as ourselves. Also, the 10 Commandments have always been a great value guide for me how to live. Also, there is more the New Testament-turning the other cheek day to day stuff and helping others and giving charity (alms) living modestly is one as well and not worshipping the self or objects.  That is plenty that can give one a good value system.

The government with its benefit system seems built to on treating others humanely which is built on respect of others and perhaps giving charity.

Now, if this was an Islamic country there are lots of similarities between the both-but its stance on some things may be slightly different.

My library used to put Christmas decorations-no more trying to be inclusive. These are the sort of things may end up knocking us in the teeth and regretting it.

Which countries have no religious values?

RachelO said:

thought that we were still with Kemi

She has never been Prime Minister, although it is easy to make a mistake as we have had so many of them in just a few years. She is currently leader of the Conservative Party. 

Lol, that tells you how I am into politics. I thought that we were still with Kemi. Thanks for the update on that. Goodness me.

Kemi Badenoch isn't prime Minister, she's Leader of the Opposition, for the time being at least. Do you think she displays Christian values and what are those values on display? Because all I can see is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Values, are they different from morals? I think we should consider the consequences of our actions. I think we should do as we would be done by. I think we should remember Socrates and use him as a guide, 'The unexamined life is not worth living' and 'The only wisdom is knowing you know nothing'. I think we should examine ourselves and how we live not in some sort of pompous naval gazing, but to make us more genuine and authentic people, I think a lot of the problems of the world could be made a lot better if people's choices where more concious. If we go through life thinking we know everything, then where's the room to learn? By admitting to little or no knowlege then everydays a school day, we can move through the world with less prejudice and self importance.

Kemi Badenoch isn’t the prime minister. She doesn’t demonstrate enough compassion to make me vote for her, should an election take place. (I am basing this on her past record with the disastrous Rwanda scheme). Perhaps her Christian values are more about getting votes than putting genuine Christian values into action. 

Interesting thoughts, me myself I am a Christan. I am a bit of an outsider in life and know how to make it work for me and so does God.

Paul had a way with his words that speak to many that was needed. Sometimes if I want something more comforting I may look elsewhere like Timothy. I know the story you recount well.

I want to cut to something else.

Kemi the prime minister she said that she doesn't identify as Christian, but holds Christian values which guide her thinking. What values do you think we should take on. I cannot see one as so fair as Christian values. premierchristian.news/.../kemi-badenoch-new-conservative-party-leader-chosen

I think a lot of people, when asked just say CofE, or Christian, as a sort of default and CofE is a sort of default for the default. As with so many questionaires results can be skewed depending on the questioner and the questions, for example I was asked in a survey what my religion was and I said that I'm a Pagan, there was no box for that and the questioner was quite hostile and asked me if I'd been christened and what as and instisted that I was CofE.

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Studying the early medieval period and the Anglo-Saxon Conversion period in particular, I've become aware of just how much controvercy there was, how many different competing Christian beliefs, Pelaganism, Gnosticism, Arianism, who was a heretic and who wasn't. We see a totally different form of worship coming from Ireland, from Columba and Iona to the variety from Rome. Most of Northern Britain was Christianised from Iona, but the standard narrative is still St Augustine and Canterbury, who arrived from Rome with thier version.

Then there were all the councils throughout the early 1ist millenium that decided what books were going to be in the bible and what versions of those books. St Paul seems to have upgraded at the expense of James bother of Jesus who always insisted that Jesus intended his new revelations to be for the Jewish people not for gentiles. It's easy to forget that St Paul never met Jesus when he was alive, but he said he had a spirtitual encounter with him on the road to Damascus, where he was told to convert everybody, not just Jews. This is the moment Saul became Paul, one of the most important figures in the formation of Christianity as we know it. There's a great deal about Saul/Paul that we don't know, there are lots of conspiracy theories/controvercies about him like was he a Roman government agent, did he deliberately seek to derail Jesus's original message and sideline James, how much of what we currently think of as Christianity is actually Paulanity?

Those figures make grim reading for the church - the number of people who are saying they are no not religious has grown by 56% while those identifying as Christian as dropped by 17% - all in just 10 years

The difference between these stats and the Statistica stats is probably because of the detail of the questions. Statistica asks if you believe in a god while the census asks if you identify with a religion, not whether you believe in it.

Thinking of how many people are indoctrinated into one religion or another through family or partner this makes a lot more sense.