Are we depressed?

Phased said:

Depressed people aren't interested in activities

Then for a high functioning autist they are going to find nobody else who will help.

Even in a state of depression some can still find the strength to drag themselves up and take the first steps to breaking the cycle. That was what I was pointing them towards.

If they don't want to change then fine, but be honest and say you don't want it to improve.

If they can't change then they really do need 3rd party help such as a therapist, but they still need to get to book that appointment and turn up.

The sad fact is that the autists who are level 1 and probably 2 (using the current labelling process where the lower the number the lesser the support needs) will get little if any help from their GP, and even that needs them to book an appointment.

When you are at the depths of a depression hole and you have nobody there to help you, you are the only one who is going to get you climbing out again.

Been there, done that and seen many others do the same which is why I recommended the approach.

blunt arrows may hit and make a mark but not necessarily get the point across to the target  - there is a joke that says: "How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb?  One, but the light bulb has got to want to change"  :-)   Depressed people aren't interested in activities - people who have something to lose are more easily motivated.  Maybe that has something to do with will-power under these circumstances. :-)

I found this very interesting

depressed?  Hmmmm.... I think alexithymia as Hergé outlines is an important consideration when talking about this.  Personally I think it plays a significant role for me.  In the run up to and post burnout especially... 

Difficulties in assessing others mental state and intentions is one thing - difficulties in assessing one's own is another side of the same coin.

From the perspective of "regulation" how easy is it to drive a car if you have little sense of what speed it is going, what gear it's in and which way the steering wheel is pointed and/or you can't see the point in driving the blessed car in the first place

The cross-over of alexithymia also being present in people with post traumatic stress disorders is worthy of note.  

So how would we know? How could we "own it" and work on it as Iain suggets?

If a quick self analysis of "am I depressed" doesn't work because of a neurophysiological basis then maybe making a more thoughtful analysis can work it out?

The symptoms of depression are (according to google :-) ):

• Lasting sad, anxious, or “empty” mood.
• Loss of interest in almost all activities.
• Appetite and weight changes.
• Changes in sleep patterns, such as inability to sleep or sleeping too much.

Then there's connecting the dots to things in our life that may be a factor in causing/resolving these...  identify the problem and do something about it....  might work?  regretfully we sometimes have very little real agency in the things that matter most to us or have impacted us the most :-(   - maybe that's why "special interests" end up being so important instead?

Anyway maybe there is a why and a how and with the right help and support...

But is that all the answer to why depression?  So I also asked the well known search engine what function depression has -

one angle is that It is "a means of yielding when there is social competition and thus reduces the efforts by the aggressor."

When getting angry isn't a practical solution and getting even isn't an option what's left?  Don't get mad get depressed perhaps?

"Another hypothesis is that the function of depression, and of low mood, is to make people accept unobtainable goals and so change those goals and It has also been proposed that it can lead to a conservation of energy in difficult circumstances."

well it seems to have that effect on me...  "reasonable adjustments" spring to mind...

another little search reveals:  "However, in the philosophical and sociological literature, it has been suggested that autism is also to some extent a 'social construct' that cannot merely be reduced to its biological explanation."

So are we depressed?

Personally I am yes - mostly because society as I experience it past and present is oppressive - not because I am autistic.

Fascinates me that so many people subscribe to these posts but so few comment - I reckon that repression is the biggest thing.

Repression refers to the act of bringing under control by force or the act of suppressing one's thoughts or feelings.   All that masking suppresses one's own thoughts and feelings perhaps....

Thanks for the question Crumble 

Crumble said:

I do take things the wrong way but this comes across as patronising

It was intended to be motivational but I guess I missed the mark - sorry.

Crumble said:

I haven’t tried any of that but I have put accommodations in place for myself

This will seem a bit blunt but I think it needs to be.

What I hear when you say this is that you haven't tried to help yourself other than to make things easier for you - is this more or less accurate?

If so, then you are treating the symptoms not the cause - if you can find ways to reduce the symptoms rather than just accepting them then you have a better chance of improving your quality of life.

Professional help is ideal but there are still a load of things you can do on your own - all of which take effort but they will be faster to try and cost almost nothing compared to paying for therapy.

I found long ago that the only way to beat my autistic traits impact was to act to find ways to deal with them - and it worked to the point that I could have a fairly neurotypical life but always at the cost of constant maintenance.

I could have been fully authentic but that would have ended me up unemployed, homeless and single and I didn't want any of these so it made the decision easy.

Long term it takes a lot of mental discipline and effort to do it to the level I have and that may not be something many are willing to do.

The way I see it it's like I get secretly fed a drug that shifts my perceptions and makes me feel really rubbish.

I can;t stop teh onset, but I CAN recognise the symptoms, and since I've been around this particular circuit a LOT of times now, I know how it goes. I'm giong to feel rubbish about everything and everyone for a while. AT such times it feels like being happy, or loved or valued is such an unrealistic dream, etc. etc. 

If I sound bored whlst descriibing it, it's because I am.

For me personally I face two choices, either do very little, loll about in bed or do some light housework duties when I feel up to it, all the time feeling sad and resentful, but the other choices all lead to me sharing my crapulence with others, which I haev leanred can have consequences that extend far beyond toughing it out on my own.. At such times, our investment in catfood and catlitter etc, can ay off because cats love llolling about doing nothing, so at least I'm not facing my demons entirely alone. 

I do take things the wrong way but this comes across as patronising, could be me not interpreting what you have said in the way it was meant though. I wish I could say thankyou and I haven’t tried any of that but I have put accommodations in place for myself already it doesn’t take away the need for professional help, I don’t know how to explain it

That’s true, it is subjective. I definitely feel a sense of confusion with my emotions and can relate to what you said about it not taking much to make your mood plummet

Crumble said:

for me it simply gave me the reason for the difficulties but not any help to cope.

The onus is on you to become the change in your circumstances.

You can do something (research, try techniques to help, get a therapist etc) to improve things.

Start with the easy stuff (reading up on the traits that worst affect you then find a list of things to try to ease them) then the long slog though trial and error of testing the different techniques until you find what really works for you.

Own your own progress and the sense of agency should buid your confidence as well as your quality of life.

A lot of what I see online is people talking about how their diagnosis changed their life and they seem to have a positive outlook now, I wish I felt like that but for me it simply gave me the reason for the difficulties but not any help to cope. I accept why I am how I am but still experience the meltdowns/shutdown/burnout/ depression. It is an exhausting cycle. I went to the gp about what post diagnostic support there is for autistic adults, they gave me links to websites such as this, and another antidepressant to try. These forums are a nice way to talk with people who understand but it isn’t professional help. I’m sad for all of us

Right. Sometimes I feel like a stranger living in my own body…

I suppose it's like a pain scale. My level of discomfort may be extremely painful to others.

Maybe it's my Alexithymia and I really am happy but I just don't know it.

I also drink tea as soon as it's poored into a mug, no matter the heat. My partner refers to me as having Teflon gums. I genuinely don't feel the heat and often cause mouth sores by burning my tongue or lips but don't remember feeling anything

Hergé said:

My mood on a scale of 1 - 10 seems capped at a hard 4 and doesn't take a great deal of provocation to plummet.

I have never been able to answer depression and anxiety tests consistently. I don’t know how anyone can.

A mood score of 9 for me might equal a score of 2 for someone who’s generally happier. How would we know?

The fact that diagnosis is on the rise but, as you say, there isn't any tailored help anyway is, if you ask me, truly appauling. It strikes me that no matter the public line trotted out by the PC politicians, society doesn't actually care about the ND community. I don't understand why you would provide more diagnostic solutions then provide no support?

I can relate, I was diagnosed with dysthymia at 18, I'm now 53 and no amount of medication or counselling over the intervening years has made a difference.Apparently I have treatment resistant depression and Alexithymia. So when you get asked the question "when did you last feel happy or look forward to something", my answer is "honestly I can't remember".

My mood on a scale of 1 - 10 seems capped at a hard 4 and doesn't take a great deal of provocation to plummet.

I maybe thought that when I was finally my assessment results things would change. The whole "oh your autistic" this changes how we'll proceed with our treatment options, oh no it doesn't.

They seems to be no NHS services set up for autistic adults other than general mental health treatment, which we've established doesn't work for me.

Fortunately I'm just too stubborn or pig headed to give in but lord it can be tough.

I've had periods of my life when I've been depressed and it's uniformly awful. I used to go through periods where I had low mood, and all the symptoms of depression that would appear periodically. At times these would get quite serious, and allied to what I've since come to understand is autistic burnout and meltdowns. It got me a tentative diagnosis of bipolar, which I knew never really fitted. Coming to understand that I'm autistic has really helped me manage my moods much better. 

I wouldn't say I'm depressed on a daily basis, but I have periods of what feel like depression and when I was younger was diagnosed 'chronically depressed'. I think a lot of it might have been autistic burnout or shut downs, but I've only been diagnosed since last week so had no idea. 

I relate with the meds, nothing ever helped me either. What helped me most was therapy, because it helped me to regulate my emotions better and pushed me to change my life to make it more comfortable for myself. I still have days, weeks and months that I feel a bit depressed though, but now I know I'm autistic, maybe that will get easier. I hope you find something that helps you 

Well I am (depressed), and I have been treated for depression and anxiety since adolescence. I am grateful for my recent autism diagnosis as it has relieved me of much guilt over the past. I am hoping to engage more with people on this forum but at the moment it is an effort to even post this. Depression is energy draining but feels very different to autism burnout.  Things will improve though as there is too much other stuff going on at home. How do people manage to engage with others continually here? Do some people take breaks over days or weeks? 

I think adults have been written off