Published on 12, July, 2020
I have Asperger’s syndrome. Why do they class Asperger’s and autism as the same now when they are so different from each other? I mean Asperger’s is a genetic condition which affects the way someone thinks and makes them slightly different and socially awkward and more anxious. Autism on the other hand in the classic sense is a debilitating condition characterised by the inability to speak and vocalise words, intellectual disability and aggression with violent outbursts. Why do people with Asperger’s dominate the perception of autism. Everybody seems to forget about these kids who cannot talk at all. People view people like us people with Asperger’s as what autism is. This is not the case classic autism as it used to be defined was basically someone who regressed around the ages 2-4 into losing all speech and ability to function. It seemed to start around the 50s to 60s. Whereas Asperger’s has been around for maybe thousands of years. There is cases documented of people who may have had Asperger’s way before the 50s. A woman in Russia in the early 1900’s at the beginning of that decade worked with under a dozen kids who would have been declared as autism highly functioning or Asperger’s syndrome nowadays. These kids were quiet and inhibited but showed great ability to work machines and understand mechanisms of things and patterns. However it appears that people who have Asperger’s are born with it and always have it. They may take a while to develop language but they never develop it and lose it forever the same way someone with classic autism does. I have known people who had one child who lost the ability to speak and function about 2-4 years old and never spoke again and had to be put in a care home. But none of the boys other siblings had this happen to them. So how do you explain this sudden regression in some people that doesn’t happen with every other kid in that same family. Something must be causing a sudden regression especially if it’s only in a specific family member and no others. Asperger’s on the other hand is genetic and if one family member has it they all are almost garuanteed to have it more or less. If anyone has any thoughts on this please do share them as I would like to make more sense of this.
There is a certain amount of evidence that some of the common genetic variants, usually affecting single nucleotides, associated with autism are also associated with high academic attainment. Which might account for the higher intelligence peak. Conversely, the rarer, often spontaneously generated, major genetic changes, such as deletions, transpositions and repeats, are more often associated with profound effects on intellect, which could account for the lower intelligence peak. Other factors are probably in play, however.
Autistic Not Alien said:I could but I won't.
Do you make your definition as a medical professional or layman?
Can you also layout the definition for us to understand better please?
Autistic Not Alien said:I see my autism as a difference rather than a disability
I believe this is correct. The Autism part has 2 aspects:
1 - a label for the area of neurodivergence that your traits fall within.
2 - as a diagnosis, autism means your neurodivergence is sufficiently impacting you that you are classed as being disabled by it.
It is a little confusing and really should be two different terms for clarity, so it may be best to say we are neurodivergent but diagnosed as autistic to show the autism is the label for disability.
Spectrum conditions are quite hard to stick labels on.
I could but I won't.
Autistic Not Alien said:We'll agree to disagree on the use of the term 'profound autism'.
You can use the definition used by medical groups if you like:
https://childmind.org/article/what-is-profound-autism/
Profound autism is defined as having an IQ of less than 50 or being nonverbal or minimally verbal.
I see my autism as a difference rather than a disability, and I believe I'm 'disabled' by society instead of anything inherently faulty with my autistic brain - i.e. I agree with the social model of disability: 'disability is caused by the way society is organised, rather than by a person's impairment or difference.'
ADHD is different though. It's an active hindrance to my working life in particular. My autism is simply an attraction to patterns, peace, and predictability (and alliteration).
We'll agree to disagree on the use of the term 'profound autism'. I've had gut issues since my teens (I'm 42 now), which I'm certain are related to anxiety. I've never been aggressive because of gut issues. Indeed, the point is that autism is a spectrum and we all have different experiences.
firemonkey said:Personally I can't understand the urge some have to get the dx whilst claiming that they are not in any way disabled.
I have some in-laws who are like this.
They think of it as a way of gaming the system. The money is there to be taken and they are smart enough to fool the people doing the assessments so believe they have earned it this way.
The amount they get away with is shocking but I'm not close enough to make a credible report (I'm 6,000 miles away) to the social services and at times I don't think the social services people care. If it were to be highlighted that they were fooled for decades by the familiy member then it would reflect badly on them so it is best to keep quiet.
There is a distinct sense of them feeling superior to suckers like me who had to go out and be a slave to a company to pay the bills when they could spend their day playing on their playstation, smoking bongs and going out to parties in the evening.
They even have their own groups that get together regularly to talk about new ways to claim benefits as the rules change - they are a depressingly organised bunch.
Do you see your autism as being a disability? Personally I can't understand the urge some have to get the dx whilst claiming that they are not in any way disabled. The worst being those who claim they are homo superior.
My apologies, too! I'm going to edit / retract my previous reply, because it's now letting me view the article on a second try. The first try was blocked by a subscription pay wall. Very odd website behaviour!
Yellow tree 118 said:I thought it might be good to share this post about people with profound autism being left behind by the neurodivergent movement.
I note that the numbers they use in the article imply that about 3% of the US population are autistic and about a third are profoundly autistic - making them 1% of the population.
The CDC say that those with profound intellectual disabilities make up between 1 and 3% of the population:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK332894/
This would imply that those with profound autism would be caught in the bigger group of those with profound intellectual disabilities and have the services provided to this group as their support net.
I guess it depends on what you actually mean by "left behind" - they are not being abandoned as the social services cater for at least some of their needs. Can you elucidate please?
Hmm that’s strange sorry about that. It let me read it and I don’t have a subscription either. Oh well! Never. Mind.
Edited version: Just FYI, it might take more than one try in order be able to read the article. The first time I tried, a subscription paywall stopped me. But it worked on a second attempt.
Yeh I see what you mean I basically don’t really feel disabled in a way I guess. I mean I can do a lot of things myself. But certain things certainly seem to affect me more than NT’s like alcohol for example. I do have genetic susceptibility to alcohol addiction. As well as level 1 ASD / Aspergers. I struggle with needing alcoholic beverages to survive in the world and not have a meltdown everyday. Not sure if u can relate to me here. But other than that I am fine and dandy. Basically I come from a long line of alcoholics. But I guess I’ve always been the way I am and I am fine with it. I didn’t suddenly develop autism like a profoundly autistic person might. I could always talk. Never had a seizure in my life luckily. But I understand that a profoundly autistic person might also struggle with epilepsy and I feel that it would be helpful to acknowledge this more.
I thought it might be good to share this post about people with profound autism being left behind by the neurodivergent movement.
www.washingtonpost.com/.../
I agree that it's important not to minimise anyone's struggles - hence Martin's point.
Although I respect your opinion. People with profound autism are unfortunately struggling with aggression issues as they are likely in pain due to gut issues. So they lash out and end up in care homes or mental institutions for the rest of their lives this is not acceptable. They should not be locked up and out of sight. It isn’t fair at all.
I feel it’s very important not to minimise the struggles of someone who cannot speak. I was selectively mute in school but that was situational and doesn’t put me in the same category as someone who cannot look after themselves. The point I am making is that.
'Autism on the other hand in the classic sense is a debilitating condition characterised by the inability to speak and vocalise words, intellectual disability and aggression with violent outbursts.'
That's news to me. I can speak, I have three degrees, and I'm not aggressive. I'm not debilitated by having an autistic brain - I'm debilitated by a chaotic and uncaring world. Also, please can we stop referring to 'profound' or 'serious' autism? It's very unhelpful. As Martin has said: 'This approach is seen as less than useful, as people needing a great deal of support may not have their abilities recognised and people needing less support may not have their very real difficulties addressed.'
Welcome. I hope these forums prove to be helpful and supportive for you.
For me it's purely factual. I'm not wedded to the term. I prefer ASD, but I'm not sure which level I fit into - 1 or 2. Having both ASD and schizoaffective/schizophrenia dxes muddies the water somewhat.