Published on 12, July, 2020
The years I’ve been accused of a lot of things a lot of different times. Mostly in relation to things driven by aspects of my autism that people took objection to. Looking back and reflecting I started to notice that the way I’ve dealt with these situations has changed over the years.
My first reaction to an accusation used to be to give some one what I call a bruised toe apology. as if you were apologising to someone who’s toes you’d had just stepped on. It’s not really intended as an admission of culpability. You didn’t mean for it to happen and you couldn’t possibly have foreseen it happening and wasn’t as if you were unusually careless. It’s more an expression of regret your actions inadvertently caused somebody else pain.
But I have discovered that as the years have gone on and I’ve been attacked more and more and accused more and more I’ve stopped giving these apologies. Too often they are interpreted as some sort of admission of guilt and people will turn around and say well he admits it therefore we’ve every reason to punish him and blame him and censure him and kick him out.
There are some people who just don’t want to be reasonable and who will never be satisfied with an apology or an explanation. They’re too many people out there who will judge you guilty as soon as the accusation is made and will admit no latitude for any consideration on your behalf.
It’s been my experience that if you make an apology these individuals will jump on it and use it as grounds to try and convince everybody else that you are guilty as charged; must be excommunicated as soon as possible. Conversely if you make no apology they will accuse you of being completely uncontright, incorrigible and therefore completely unworthy of any consideration. You can’t win with these people, but if instead of apologising you start by attacking the substance of the accusations as soon as possible and as directly as possible you at least have a chance to stop them shutting down the debate before it starts.
If your defence is that your autism occasionally causes you to come off as a bit of an arsehole adopting an argumentative approach that makes you seem needlessly belligerent is not actually that harmful to your case. Afterwards after you’ve made all your arguments, inserted all the caveats, then you can make your apology. just make sure that no one could mistake it for an admission of culpability.
The important thing is to get your foot in the door in the argument so those open to the possibility of autism as an excuse can actually get to hear your side of the story
So I’m really curious to hear how you deal with being accused? Have you noticed the way you handle it has changed over time?
The initial attraction, the 'magnetism' may work, but then getting beyond that point into an actual relationship, is entirely different. Even a conversation can be very hard!
I vaguely remember that exchange. But I wouldn't nessicerally assume that 'men appearing' would need to lead to a relationship. Many women might be quite interested in casual sex. It's also sometimes posible to convert attraction to friendship. I've known women with a fair number of male friends who first got to know them because they 'fancied' them.
If you think that any data that may be available on this is more important than the 'life experience' of the subject of the conversation, you will indeed come into conflict with people.
You know I once got shouted at by this irrational woman in a car park. I was at the bottom of a long narrow ramp at the carpark exit barrier. And I couldn't seem to find my ticket in the glove box. After maybe 2 minuets of searching the women in the car behind me gets out and starts to have a go at me demanding I back all the way up this narrow long ramp so she can drive around me. And I respond with what you'd expect. 'I'm sorry I'm 100% certain the ticket is in here just give me a moment etc.' But she starts getting hysterical. She'll be late picking her son up from school, which means he might be abducted and killed. The absurdity of it, as if being 5 minuets late is going to do anything other than annoy the teachers who want to go home. And I wonder to my self is this women just trying to make a scene or does she really seriously believe this. And sadly for her I think she did.
I think she was so paranoid and irrational that she really believed her lateness would some how endanger her son. This is why I don't easily trust personal experience. It's filtered through personal feelings. People are ruled by their amygdalas more than their cortex when it comes to assessing risk or effectiveness of given strategies or attributing cause to effect. If some one wants me to take their personal experience seriously in an argument they need to show me they can deconstruct those experiences analytically and dispassionately, with out exploding every-time their interpretation of their experience is questioned.
Peter said:People will say to me variations of, 'you should agree with me because I've had X, Y, Z life experience,' and my response will be, 'the plural of anecdote is not data.'
Well, I can see where the issues you discuss in your opening of this thread may arise then.
We had a discussion on a thread where a woman was looking for relationships + you said something to the effect of dressing a certain way + being attractive + men will just appear (like magnetism - my words).
However, I said that (re your above comment) that wasn't my experience even though I was attractive and that autism affects a woman in every way in respect of relations with people, often 'negatively'.
Cheeeeeeese.
Oh my god, you rock..
Number said:I think it should be cheeeeesy badgers in a hot mess.
You are slightly bonkers, aren't you?
I Sperg said:I just tried to P.M. Debbie, and it took me straight to a P.M. conversation I have had with Number...
Just PM'd you.
It's fair to say I hold most views strongly. At least any I'd care to spend time talking about at length online. I can be persuaded. But generally only by argument not emotion. People will say to me variations of, 'you should agree with me because I've had X, Y, Z life experience,' and my response will be, 'the plural of anecdote is not data.'
To change my mind you have to get into the nuts of bolts of an argument analysing little details and how they fit together from the bottom up. To me esoteric but carefully constructed thought experiments are often more persuasive than nebulous personal experience. I tend to take a reductionist approach to things. Often (but not always) Quantitive too. I don't think a 'big picture' thinker could persuade me of anything. You have to tear into the details to persuade me.
Or possibly don't want to understand. Or need a scape goat. Some people feel they need some one to blame so they can wear the victim hat and milk it for sympathy. Some one unsympathetic in others eyes, which autistic people often are.
areyoualien.uk
Well that is strange - I haven't PM'd with Debbie today.
The only conceivable explanation is........wait for it..........badgers. You're welcome.
No wait, after reflection, today, I think it should be cheeeeesy badgers in a hot mess.
Whoa, this is weird!
I just tried to P.M. Debbie, and it took me straight to a P.M. conversation I have had with Number...
SO I tried it then by looking at her I.D. using the PM function on that and it still took me back to my conversation with number.
Simple by adding up the avaialble data one can only conclude therefore that they are in fact one and the same person!
As a "conspiracy theorist" of course, I simply don't trust the "easy to obtain data", nor do I trust the logical conclusion based on gut feeling and common sense (both held these days to be incredibly unreliable) so I am looking for more information.
I think that seeing another's person's point of view and then trying to understand it is imperative in our relations with others, along with respect.
If everyone could do this, we would be doing much much much much better as a species right now !
Yes it’s a-little jarring to find normalcy in society, after all we are one-in-fifty anywhere else, I such a blessing to know that here I am one-in-one..
Why thank you, fellow auti ! However, I rather think that is the point !! The reason why I like it here is because most people seem to understand me here, even if we don't always have the same opinions and perspectives on things. It appears to me that most autistic folk have, what I like to call, normality !
Oh, the irony !
Survival of the most-reasonable then..
I can appreciate your intentions just fine Number, you’re a smart guy for sure, it’s not hard to see that you trying earnestly to understand..
I scored a little lower in the EQ than the AQ, which to me was telling of my slipping-the-net up until that point, it suggested that I had a proficiency in masking my traits..
Weirdly enough my screener didn’t ask for AQ, but when I volunteered it, she seemed very grateful for it..
I Sperg said: I have to point out that we all can at some point get "intractable in our views"
Yes, I agree ...
With regard to you and I and the disagreements we have had, I think I understand to some extent the basis upon which your views are held.
As this is a personal point which you have only mentioned in passing from time to time, I won't elucidate further.
Even if I can myself be 'intractable' in 'defending' women's place in society and the struggle to reach this point, I do at least try to understand why someone might believe differently to me.
If I were receiving multiple accusations of the same thing, I think I'd probably engage in some self-reflection, especially if they were coming from both NT and autistic people. I guess if it's all coming from NT people then it might just be a difference in communication styles, and I'd probably try to spend less time with them and more time with other autistic people, but if the criticism is coming from both sides then it can't be because of the autism, so it must be something I'm doing.