Autistic population and natural neuro variance model and argument against eugenics

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

"Especially because Autism in of itself cannot be the cause of things like learning dificulties or intellectual disabilities on it's own because if it did there would be no observable spectrum where autism can be present without co-occuring conditions."

There is no mention of intellectual disability in the diagnostic manuals for autism. Therefore,autism is not predicated on the presence of intellectual disability. However, though the proportion has dropped and continues to drop, a proportion of autistics (estimated at c. 60-70% in 1990, c. 30% in 2020) also have intellectual disability. It looks very likely that some causes of autism also cause, or are associated with, intellectual disability, while other causes of autism have no link with intellectual disability.

This line was to specifically address the issues where there used to be separate diagnosis and "autism" as a term usually got used to denote far more demonised forms such as Speaks bullplop portrayal of autism as something that ruins otherwise happy families, in an ad that had all the tones of peak AIDs crisis hysteria.
And also as a reminder there are many other genes not connected with autism that still contribute to intellectual disability so people must remember that a correlation which is not even guaranteed cannot be prresumed to be the cause of something else. And a reminder that conflating Autism with sometimes co-occuring conditions is not always helpful when dealing with and talking about autism specifically.

It is the case that people with intellectual disability, who also show reduced sociability, are labelled 'autistic', while people with intellectual disability, who are highly sociable and outgoing, are not labelled 'allistic'.

I know autism is perceived as a spectrum condition. I also know that autistics are no more alike than the general population is. What I do not understand is to what "You mean also autistic," is referring to. I presumed that it referred to the people I called allistic, which makes no sense. If it referred to the people I called autistic, it also makes no sense,  because I called them autistic in the first place.

If they meant that I should have said "It is the case that people with intellectual disability, who also show reduced sociability, are ALSO labelled 'autistic', ..." It is equally baffling to me as the word 'also' in context is entirely superfluous.

Sorry, I realise that I am pedantic, but that is a facet of my character, which may, or may not, be autistic in origin.

I am saddened to learn of your illness Sam. I hope to gain more of your future insights. You seem a cool guy I can learn from. There are many who are opinionated. I try for good listening attributes.

While not an intellectual giant I don't believe I have an intellectual disability, but yet show a reduced level of sociability unconsciously. This picks up on this quote from Sam's response: " because we are not homogeneous."

Does that need to be an issue? Seems a wire just got crossed somewhere but doesn't appear to have made a real difference in the end. Besides it's too late at night and I'm too ill to unpick it at this time so if it's not really gonna be a problem I'm happy to file it under: meh ‍ and let it be.

I still do not know what you meant in the sentence I quoted. To me it does not match with anything I wrote previously.

Martin said:

My point was that asocial people with intellectual disability are doubly pathologized, while their outgoing, sociable equivalents are not.

That part is not in question.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

You mean also autistic, because existing on a spectrum of experience is actually the most natural thing in the universe.

I do not understand you here, I am talking about clinical definitions. My point was that asocial people with intellectual disability are doubly pathologized, while their outgoing, sociable equivalents are not.

Martin said:

It is the case that people with intellectual disability, who also show reduced sociability, are labelled 'autistic', while people with intellectual disability, who are highly sociable and outgoing, are not labelled 'allistic'.

You mean also autistic, because existing on a spectrum of experience is actually the most natural thing in the universe.
This is why we cannot remove the autism from ourselves but neither does everything we say or do have to be because we are autistic.
Really apart from a shared bundle of criteria that make us autistic we are different people and personalities and we lead very different lives. We only ally here on the autistic intersection when really we are multifacted. This is why people like to say "if you have met one person with autism, you have met one person with autism" because we are not homogeneous.

Martin said:

It is the case that people with intellectual disability, who also show reduced sociability, are labelled 'autistic', while people with intellectual disability, who are highly sociable and outgoing, are not labelled 'allistic'.

You mean also autistic, because existing on a spectrum of experience is actually the most natural thing in the universe.
This is why we cannot remove the autism from ourselves but neither does everything we say or do have to be because we are autistic.
Really apart from a shared bundle of criteria that make us autistic we are different people and personalities and we lead very different lives. We only ally here on the autistic intersection when really we are multifacted. This is why people like to say "if you have met one person with autism, you have met one person with autism" because we are not homogeneous.

I am saddened to learn of your illness Sam. I hope to gain more of your future insights. You seem a cool guy I can learn from. There are many who are opinionated. I try for good listening attributes.

Does that need to be an issue? Seems a wire just got crossed somewhere but doesn't appear to have made a real difference in the end. Besides it's too late at night and I'm too ill to unpick it at this time so if it's not really gonna be a problem I'm happy to file it under: meh ‍ and let it be.

I still do not know what you meant in the sentence I quoted. To me it does not match with anything I wrote previously.

Martin said:

My point was that asocial people with intellectual disability are doubly pathologized, while their outgoing, sociable equivalents are not.

That part is not in question.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

You mean also autistic, because existing on a spectrum of experience is actually the most natural thing in the universe.

I do not understand you here, I am talking about clinical definitions. My point was that asocial people with intellectual disability are doubly pathologized, while their outgoing, sociable equivalents are not.