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I've actually learned some social skills

Luis

I have never been great with people. More a spectator of what happens around than an actor of my own life. I have always felt different degrees of loneliness, even now that I am happily married.

However, I can say that actually learned social skills. The turning point happened in my twenties, and the interesting thing is how good but how limited in scope they are. They are so good that almost no-one can believe I am within the spectrum these days, but so limited that my ability to connect remains extremely poor.

To give you an example, I am really good at job interviews. I have not had many, but most of them have ended with a job offer. However, I have failed at pretty much every job due to not understanding of what's expected from me and my inability to make connections. So what is different? I think it is depth.

I have learned how to make most people like me when they first meet me. I cannot really explain how I do it as it has become second nature, but after years of observation and practice I now know how to use words and body language in a way that most people feel comfortable and like me. I think I smile a lot, look for clues on what people feel and what they are interested in, and make it easy for them to be open about it. What I have not learned is how to do the next step, how to actually connect.

I think the reason is that my observation and analytical skills cannot make up for my lack of intuition, common sense or however you want to call that intangible skill. I understand people, and some aspects I understand extremely well, to a point that baffles others. But understanding how car steering works is not the same as being a good driver. You need to be able to feel the car going one way and naturally steer it in the opposite direction just the right amount. At the same time, you need to play with the gas, the brake and the gears. You cannot rationalise all that. It requires a deeper connection that t you ether feel or you don't.

And I don't.

  • in reply to Paul
    Paul said:
    That double empath issue is very interesting too and seems a good explanation for a lot of the interaction problems we have with NTs

    Yes, much of the miscommunication occurs because of differing neurotypes and therefore different experiences of the world which are difficult to relate to. 

    I am glad you enjoyed reading the article. 

  • in reply to Luis

    Ah, as it turned out, I redirected mine towards something more people-oriented (counselling and tutoring self managment courses) BUT this involved using my sensitivity and empathy my way rather than to keep up the sort of superficial social scripting that goes on in office environments.  Offices, and in particular the chit chat and politics, were just too much for me. 

  • It is so interesting that this seems quite normal for us.  I too have always been good at interviews and mostly got the jobs I went for.  The last few interviews where all for programmers who are a different breed anyway.  With my current job (23 years and counting) lack of social skills never seemed a problem because there were plenty of my colleagues who are were much worse than me. 

    In fact when talking to customers regarding work, I can be very good at explaining the technical in a non technical way - it's just the small talk and conversational fluff I don't do.  That said I am sure I have upset/annoyed plenty of people through work in the past by being too blunt.

    That double empath issue is very interesting too and seems a good explanation for a lot of the interaction problems we have with NTs

  • in reply to Jenny Butterfly

    That's great. I am actually trying to re-direct my career towards something less people-oriented.

  • in reply to ...

    Yes, I've done this too, particularly when working in an office environment as these places usually ended up feeling quite hostile and toxic to me.  

    After some initial practice, I usually managed to get through interviews by mirroring, building rapport, projecting a smiley confident persona and lots of research beforehand.  All masking, of course.  Alas the energy it took to maintain the mask meant that this wasn't sustainable once I got the job.  I could almost feel them wondering what happened to the person they thought they'd employed!

    I've found that I'm much better off working for myself, at my own pace, in my own environment, although it took a lot of years for me to reach the point where I felt confident and secure enough to actually do this.  

  • in reply to Untoward
    Untoward said:
    You are right but it's a bit misleading. I have great social skills if I'm interacting with another autistic person or a computer, because I'm very direct, honest, straightforward and logical. This lends itself well to some situations, but not most.

    Yes I agree, I find interacting with another autistic person really easy. The reason why our communication style is not received well sometimes by neurotypical people is because they don’t like when we say what we mean. This is sometimes very confusing because their definition of honesty is usually still lying.

    Untoward said:
    Most people use a huge amount of nuance, subtext and indirect forms of communication, which are lost on me, which means I can miss the point and also means I can appear rude or even offend people when I don't do those things myself. People have told me this before when I've been too blunt.

    Ditto, have you heard of the double empathy problem?

    https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/professional-practice/double-empathy

  • in reply to Untoward

    What you mention about women is also quite interesting. I quite recently reached some conclusions that I think have helped me: when people complain about something, often they do not need/want you to give them a solution. In that sense, there are three types of people:

    1. Those who actually want and welcome a possible solution straightaway. I think these are a tiny minority.

    2. Those who only want to offload and maybe feel sympathy. 

    3. Those who need to offload before they are able to think about solutions (and maybe listen to advice)

    Basically, I think that the need for sympathy (or to get something out of your system) and finding a solution are two different things. Most people need/want both, but not everyone. Also, most people need to fulfill the first before being prepared to think about the second. I see it as having obsessive thoughts that do not let you focus in other things. But in this case, instead of thoughts, are emotions that blurry your capacity to be rational.

  • in reply to ...

    It’s very similar for me. Once I am settled I find it difficult not to withdraw myself. People who were very friendly start to become colder… I guess as a response tho my own change in behaviour.

  • in reply to Untoward

    I must say this is a great conversation. It’s the first time I can talk about this with someone who is in a similar situation.

    When I was talking about honesty, I meant honesty about yourself, rather than about them. As you say, people get offended if you don’t sugar-coat what you think about them, the same way I get annoyed if I am told I am rude or insensitive or weird.

    however, i think it’s different if I am honest about myself. I don’t think everyone will accept that, as it is still not very common (particularly in this country) to be open, but the response should be comparatively much more positive. Also, if they respond well, they would be much more prepared for other direct messages.

    Just to be clear, I don’t think there is a way to fully fit, as these differences will always create a bit of a distance, but we can always shorten it.

    On a different note, and please don’t answer if you don’t want to, have you had any more success building relationships with autistic people?

  • in reply to Ausomely Autistic

    You are right but it's a bit misleading. I have great social skills if I'm interacting with another autistic person or a computer, because I'm very direct, honest, straightforward and logical. This lends itself well to some situations, but not most.

    Most people use a huge amount of nuance, subtext and indirect forms of communication, which are lost on me, which means I can miss the point and also means I can appear rude or even offend people when I don't do those things myself. People have told me this before when I've been too blunt.

    To give an example, someone sent me a link to a YouTube video that they liked, and I told them it was boring and I didn't want to watch it. Later on that person told me I had upset them, and that a normal person would say "that's cool" or "I'll check it out later" or something. I didn't understand and to me it seemed wrong to say something that I didn't really believe. I didn't perceive myself to have done anything wrong, but I've realised these "white lies" are done by people all the time. It's part of friendship and group dynamics.

    Personally I would prefer everyone was always honest with me as I am with them and I think communication would be much clearer and there would be less conflict if that was the case. In the past when someone has lied to protect my feelings, I have been more annoyed about the fact they are lying and have got in many arguments over this.

    It seems like there are these vague unwritten rules. The "elephant in the room" and "emperor has no clothes" are good idioms for how I feel most people behave. In the past I'd be the one pointing it out and get everyone looking at me with scorn. Now I have learnt to keep my mouth shut. If everyone is ignoring something obvious, they actually all do know the truth, and it's a social convention for them to pretend.

    I understand women even less. Hopefully this won't be perceived as sexism and I'm sorry if it offends. But from my observations of conversation between women, all they do is continuously lie to each other about how they look and how they are correct about every decision they've ever made. They absolutely never ever want someone to tell them how they could solve a problem that they are complaining about, they just want reassurance and sympathy, no matter how fake. This is an unbelievably powerful technique to learn. I now just listen and say things like "that sucks" and "I'm so sorry" and it's amazingly effective...

    This got too long so the TL;DR: everybody is lying all the time and if you don't do it as well then you will upset them.

  • Have you realised you already have social skills as an autistic person? You may not recognise it because the majority of your interactions are with the predominant neurotype, and they don’t understand the autistic communication style. Please don’t feel like you have to learn neurotypical social skills as this reinforces masking. Autistics can be be great communicators because of our direct and honest way.

    https://ausometraining.com/autism-and-social-skills/

  • in reply to Untoward

    Making friends is tricky because you cannot make a friend unless you are honest. You cannot pretend to be someone you are not. However, if you fake who you are, you will have more chances of people wanting to know you.

    What I am doing recently is trying to be quite upfront: "Yep, I think I am autistic". "Sorry, I don't always get these things" "I cannot read between the lines" "I am quite literal" Or even "I am going through a bit of a depression at the moment". This way, I think I remove part of the weirdness around me because many cards are on the table, and these days people are more open minded. Some people may not feel comfortable, but In the end, I will only manage to connect with people that are comfortable with who I am.

  • That's interesting to hear. I am the same I think. I used to be completely hopeless in social situations and suffer from bad anxiety, but through watching how others behave and YouTube videos which tell me how to respond to certain things and what not to do/say, I have gained the ability to simulate normal human interaction.

    Most of these things are things that come naturally to others and that they learn without effort from a young age, but for me it was a conscious and intentional learning process, and to this day it requires concentration and memory to respond in the correct way - even to simple things like someone saying "hello" or "how are you". In the past I would sometimes not respond at all, or just say "I'm OK" without follow up, but I know now that I'm meant to ask them how they are, and every conversation should have this back-and-forth interplay like a game of tennis.

    It does not come naturally to me and I have never made a real connection with anybody - never had a friend. I can only pretend to be normal but I don't know what the next step for becoming friends is.

    I also do well in job interviews now because I learnt about mirroring (I will copy the hand and leg positions of the interviewer), and make myself smile after they have spoken, and all these other tricks. But all of this is a lot of effort and I get burnout when I have to do it all the time, which is why once I start the job in the office environment I tend to shut down completely and even become non-responsive.

    And I still struggle with knowing when people are joking or subtext. I've often made a fool of myself - always seem to be the last to get a joke or ask questions about what someone has said because it confused me when it shouldn't have been taken literally.