I don't know how to cope with employment

Autimator said:

You can also focus on employers that are disability friendly, if you go on https://findajob.dwp.gov.uk/ you can search for jobs in your area and then click on the Disability Confident link to only see those jobs

Unknown said:

Also, jobs in the public sector are often more understanding of NAT people

Quoted these together, granted it is usually public sector organisations that have Disability Confident, but all jobs I've seen at the organisations locally are scripted as involving public contact and inevitably requiring "excellent communication skills" in Person Specifications.

Unknown said:

I would also say another positive right now is that working from home is the new normal, and this is good for so many ASD people. So maybe write that down too? That means that you may be able to apply for jobs that aren't even local

Not so sure about that, for people that already had a job their employer could set them up for working from home, but for those who didn't it has made it even more difficult being on the outside, I find video calls as difficult as phones.  Jobs I'd seen advertised for working from home were phone customer service anyway.

You might want to spend some time thinking about what sort of jobs you are suited to, or volunteer for while to gain some experience.   If you have skills in something then self-employment might be something to think about.  Also, look out for free courses to develop yourself - you can search on the National Careers Service website for them.

You can also focus on employers that are disability friendly, if you go on https://findajob.dwp.gov.uk/ you can search for jobs in your area and then click on the Disability Confident link to only see those jobs.  Doesn't mean they will all understand autism, or want to make adjustments, but it will be more likely.

Robert124 said:

I've been ordered by my universal credit workcoach to watch YouTube videos on body language and interview skills in order to improve.

Hello Robert124, two months on I wondered how you'd been getting on.  What strikes me is that "ordering" you to watch such videos to "improve" ought to be called out as discrimination on their part, especially if there was any direct threat of sanction if you couldn't improve, as they ought to realise that such imperfections in body language are a permanent part of the condition.  Could a disability adviser explain as much to that workcoach, or possibly someone from the NAS to put it in writing to them?  They, in turn, should be "ordered" to watch this NAS "Could you stand the rejection" video.

Robert124 said:

I've been sacked by several employers and told that I'm unemployable.

Are you in contact with any of them such that they could put it in writing to this workcoach?  This is what is so difficult about the "abyss" (as I described it on this other thread) between being nowhere near impaired enough to be deemed an ESA/PIP case, yet too impaired to be employers' first choice, in that ESA/PIP relies on clinical evidence from GPs but our condition isn't 'clinical' as such not needing medication or GP contact.

Robert124 said:

What I hate is being told by employment advisors, is that I should take any work, just to get off benefits, and then look for more suitable jobs while I'm in employment. Then, at real interviews I get told to my face, that in their opinion, I don't really want this job, I'm just applying to get off benefits and they think I will leave as soon I find something better, so they won't give me this job because if I leave they will need to go through the recruitment process again.

Employment advisors are out of touch with the concept that employers often reject 'overqualified' applicants.  The work coaches and advisors' role ought to be moved towards more proactive with employers, to introduce us to where they would value our strengths in roles to use them, without trying to 'therapise'/'coach' us on the things we are never going to change by definition of the condition.

NAS15878 said:

I wish industries made vacancies especially for people on the spectrum, as working is really one of the hardest parts of life for me as well.

Agreed, customer/supplier/public contact and "excellent communication skills" seems to be scripted into every job description but large companies and public sector organisations must have many tasks that would suit us, if they could only put them in seperate roles.

Unknown said:

The best way to make work life more tolerable, or at least controllable, it to be self-employed.

It's a lot of hard work, is risky and lacks the support that employment brings

I've always been wary of over-suggestion of self-employment for Aspergers as it involves a lot of communication skill in developing a business plan, selling, marketing and dealing with bank manages, solicitors and auditors.  Good luck to anyone that goes for it and does well that way but it is not for everyone.

Orwell. :) 

I detest, no wait. I loathe networking. It's completely horrendous.

What I have found is that at trade shows with equipment in my field, I'd have a sort of natural connexion to the engineers who created it.The ADHD ones especially find my autistic traits 'grounding', so somehow without really trying, I manage to make friends.

Are there conferences you can go to? Sometimes 70% of the work is just showing up.  

The last one I was at, I just made my way to the bar and stood there rather awkward, and the ADHD female in the room chatted me up! (both female, new friend). I also sat in the designated cafe for a bit, chatted with the seemingly autistic photographer and 2 women at the table next to mine were talking about something I'm quite knowledgable on for their clients. When it became unbearable I apologised and said that maybe I could help them, which I could. After all, that was what we were all there for. Going to lectures is also useful. In fields of Science and Art, people desperately need experts. They need the eccentric individual who can give them the things they overlook. It doesn't mean I have a whole new list of clients or fantastic new contracts, but I've expanded my connexions a bit and feel like I do have something to offer and at least there are possibilities. 

How extensive can you become? Can you mentor at the University you went to? Dealing with one human at a time is much more easy for me. Are there events on the edge of the scope of your understanding? What are all of your interests? What about foraging or finding new organisms?

I have simple rules I follow -I'm still someone it can take years to get to know, so basic rules of engagement are incredibly useful. Humans want to feel valuable and respected. So kindness goes far. Both meditation and religion presume everyone is worthwhile and that internal intentional thought about others, creates a genuine expression. This helps with purposefully asking others about themselves. But I also take into mind the external world I create around me. Appearance can be difficult. For females we cannot do much in society without it. At one point I was not given a job due to my negligence over appearance. From that moment on, I changed everything. When I younger, there was an artist in my town who wore the same black suit through the winter and the same white suit through the summer. HIs aesthetic was amazing add he sort of looked like Andy Warhol. He became my ideal. I just committed to a female version. 

Events are incredibly exhausting, so properly designated and planned in detail just like a holiday. I have one 4 day conference every other year. I do a weeks worth of prep, and block out days after to recover. 

It's awful. It feels like there's always someone lying to you, or not understanding what the problem is, or that the "help" that is out there has nothing to do with actually getting a job.

Interviews are just a strict test of social normality, they're never there to determine your ability regarding the role. I have always had to script lies to get through them.

Sounds very familiar.

What I hate is being told by employment advisors, is that I should take any work, just to get off benefits, and then look for more suitable jobs while I'm in employment.

Then, at real interviews I get told to my face, that in their opinion, I don't really want this job, I'm just applying to get off benefits and they think I will leave as soon I find something better, so they won't give me this job because if I leave they will need to go through the recruitment process again. They want someone who will be happy to stay in the job.

Thank you for sharing. I wish work was more like being a student. That a job was just "do this list of maths problems"

Asking for things like direct communication, flexible hours, and structure all sound so reasonable to me but I'm afraid that an employer would think it's too much and just fire me.

The maddening thing is I've also had a crazy amount of interview training and employability courses. The advice I have consistently been given is "You did great, I can't think of any ways you can improve and I don't understand why you would struggle to get work". I'm serious, I have been told this multiple times during feedback on practice interviews from different trainers. It sure didn't help me with coming to terms with the fact that I'm not imagining my problems.

It's great to hear that you've succeeded. You're right, autistic people are different and that's not the same thing as being worse.

The thing about Microbiology work is um... I don't know how...

I left university with no idea how to find work with my shiny new degree and today I still don't know how. I did try the rather sparse career services my university offered at the time but they were unhelpful. Trying to look for advice on this topic only yields me words like "networking" which is not something I can do.

I'd like to be self-employed too, I don't think I have any skills I can sell but maybe someday I will.

I hope so. Maybe when the training ends I can start wiping it all from my memory and let myself be a human again.

I think the light at the end of my tunnel is just the explosions of the proles revolting, or maybe Snowball came to save us. I hope these references aren't obscure.

I've had two jobs - as a nursery assistant and then an admin apprentice. I much preferred being an apprentice to being a nursery nurse, because it was more like being a student with a handful of easy and predictable tasks (paid therapy hahaa). Apprenticeship wages are not great and apprentice hours made me want to scream sometimes. Fortunately I was entitled to a good amount of paid annual leave.

I think working in a nursery was terrible because

1. there was NO STRUCTURE AT ALL
2. I was employed by an agency and was at a different nursery every other day, so I couldn't even get familiar with my surroundings and I was anxious every day
3. sensory overload
4. working so closely with different personalities all the time whilst having little authority in the job was confusing and emotionally disconcerting

I lasted 3 months in that job (by way of force because I desperately wanted to move away from my dad who is emotionally abusive). 

My dream job (apart from being a film writer and director of course) is one that is well structured, clear boundaries and good hours. Something like a receptionist maybe. I'm really hoping your employers will value and respect you this time, as no employee deserves to be pushed that far emotionally. I wish industries made vacancies especially for people on the spectrum, as working is really one of the hardest parts of life for me as well.

Desmond79 said:

duty to work

I've been sacked by several employers and told that I'm unemployable.  

In one training scheme I was asked to leave after a week and told that no-one would employ me in a million years, so I was wasting my time even trying.

Too much TedTalks junk, these days, when finding work.

It used to be one's duty to work. Now, it's a Hamster Wheel. The Fabians sought to punish productivity and reward procrastination.

I've been ordered by my universal credit workcoach to watch YouTube videos on body language and interview skills in order to improve.

I had all the training on interview skills in the world, but always himmed and hammed. I'm just not an interviewee.

NAS75899 said:

maybe I've just been more susceptible to trauma than a neurotypical person would have bee

The task will be discovering what is amazing about the autistic brain and different than NT and what's trauma. I sometimes say it too much, but I've found great comfort in ethics and aesthetics. 50 years ago it would be more typical to be dependable, to have a think before responding, to encourage understanding and be analytical, regard truth as something to seek and so on - characteristics that we can be known for. Same with sensory objects - lights, sound, scents. If fire is ideal, LED is not. Chemically made scents are in everything which a bit of baking soda and vinegar can sort out. I would suggest things have changed a great deal socially in society to where we can be noticeably different. Most of this would have to do with how we perceive, understand and relate in the world. It's not better, just different. 

NAS75899 said:

Will a less social job help?

I would say yes. Microbiology sounds amazing, would you be able to work in research? What about extending into immunology or fungi? Or plant life in general - a nursery, for instance.

Soft Skills are typically not for Autists. We're great socialising with one another, but not with Neurotypical individuals who want customer service reps to exchange their secret codes in a secretly coded pre-programmed manner. Unless you've taken improv classes, it will always be incredibly nebulous. Even after improv classes it will be exhausting to 'play along'. 

If I look up soft skills, Self-Management and Focus are the only two of the lot which the autistic brain might enjoy and thrive at. But by self management I simply mean being driven to finish a task or project in great detail because leaving anything open ended or undone can be maddening to us by default. 

I work for myself, but over time as anything administrative takes me far longer than it would most and I always have to go back and double check my files, my emails my information before sending/filing. But I did experience years of heartbreak thinking there was something wrong with me, that I lacked intellect or just wasn't interesting enough... I had been let go so many times for the same reason. It's a bit Devine and a bit of a Wonderland how I sort of 'fell' into what I'm doing. It's not the kind of income I'd like to make, but I'm able to just make enough and help my son a little. So, much better than 20 years ago :) 

NAS75899 said:

I hear phrases like "rapport" and "soft skills"

You're not alone. This empty corporate-management-speak has found its way into everyday language. As our humanity is devalued more and more, and our worth becomes linked to our productivity, this kind of soulless, mutated business-speak will increase at a dizzying rate.  

Be kind to yourself, by being yourself. Never change who you are to fit in. Don't join in with behaviours (including ways of talking) that don't resonate with you. Successful people and interesting people are the ones who refuse to follow the herd, and maintain their individuality no matter what the situation or environment. 

You will be fine!

It seems that the life has been sucked out of younger generations. With Bog-Standard Schooling, and a Cul-De-Sac of Dead-End jobs. I was a Guinea Pig for your generation. Graduating in 2001; and being unable to forge a career out of my Degree.

However, God had other plans. He didn't want me to become a stooge. He wanted me to live, rather than merely exist.

Hope you can see a light at the end of the tunnel; which isn't a Gorilla in a Miner's Hat carrying a Baseball Bat.