Is it possible to 'learn' non-verbal communication when autistic?

Emmsmum said:

Hi,

Greetings. 

Emmsmum said:

As the mother of 2 autistic children, I finally got up the guts to get assessed myself.  I was shocked to find that they would not diagnose me because my non-verbal skills were too good, other than that, I would've got the diagnosis.

Well one consideration is that having autistic traits does not automatically translate into having enough autistic traits to be diagnosed as being on the autism diagnostic spectrum, but with that being stated there are also other considerations:

Emmsmum said:

I've spent almost 50 years watching and observing people (I've even been challenged several times for inadvertently staring at strangers whilst watching them).  I can keep eye contact for a few seconds then I have to look away, but I'm a naturally friendly, smiley person (like my son) and I feel the assessor didn't 'get me' and took my learnt friendliness the wrong way. 

There is the social necessity for people who are neurologically and behaviourally divergent to 'act' as if they are not socially divergent, and use normal behaviourisms that have been mimicked from and adapted with others in terms of being socially convergent ~ so as to 'fit-in' rather than getting persecuted or victimised for not conforming with the expected social norms, as involves the 'odd-ones-out' becoming societal victims that serve as both a warning to and means for others to maintain there position or advance up the passive and or aggressive league-tables of social status anxiety. 

Acting or pretending to be normal or neurologically and behaviourally typical involves what is referred to as 'social camouflaging' for more generalised behaviours when in social environments, and 'social masking' for specific interactions involving verbal and non-verbal communication with specific people or groups of people.   

Here follows a link for a 2019 newspaper article from the Guardian reporting upon the difficulties that both women and men face when getting diagnosed for the above stated reasons:

Women 'better than men at disguising autism symptoms' GPs would miss fewer diagnoses if ‘camouflaging’ was better understood, say researchers.

And here is a link to the research paper referred to in the Guardian article:

Putting on My Best Normal": Social Camouflaging in Adults with Autism Spectrum Conditions.

Emmsmum said:

Has anyone else come across this, or feel their ability to 'act' normal was used against them in an assessment?

The first time I addressed being on spectrum with a psychologist they rolled their eyes in that '(Oh my life ~ not another one . . . )' manner, and ignored everything I said.

The second time I addressed being on the spectrum with another psychologist several years later ~ they heard me out all big and affirmatively, and then stated, "Well that is all very interesting, but we have work to do!" ~ and then proceeded to inform me I was resisting treatment for my own satisfaction, and if I wanted to get better I had to change and apply myself.

That treatment process made my condition progressively worse, my GP had to challenge them on that matter but they insisted I needed to put more effort in, and a legal team were ardently keen to represent me in court being that I record my psychological sessions so that I can make better sense of them after I have had stress induced seizures because of them, and the psychologist kept making their mistaken assertions and accusations in writing.

When I addressed being on the spectrum with my GP though ~ after discharging myself from the psychotherapy service due to my deteriorating health, they very much in revelation said, "Of course ~ why didn't we spot it before!" and I was referred shortly thereafter and diagnosed a couple of years later, rather than going to court and all that about the psychological malpractice.

I also have a female friend who on their first assessment was not diagnosed as being on the spectrum, but whilst entering into the room of her second assessment she was instructed to "Drop the mask as it [was] not needed [there]!" and was diagnosed at the end of session with the diagnostic report arriving some time thereafter.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience, although I'm sorry you had trouble getting diagnosed, it does help to know I'm not alone.  I fully understand that autistic traits do not automatically equal autism, but the psychologist said to me that had I not scored so highly in non-verbal communication, she would have diagnosed me with autism.  Thank you so much for the links to the article and academic paper, both of which I will copy and send when I lodge my complaint.  Luckily a my friend of 30 years has offered to write a statement in support of this also, outlining the intense social anxiety/problems I experienced and how I mask effectively.  Who knows whether I will get anywhere with it, or whether they will close ranks, but I've got to try. Otherwise I will be saving up for an assessment elsewhere!

Emmsmum said:

Thank you so much for sharing your experience, although I'm sorry you had trouble getting diagnosed, it does help to know I'm not alone. 

Well for added 'we are not alone' effect you might also then find the following thread on the Autism Forums website (more commonly once known as Aspies Central) as being worth a read also ~ as a well known female community member of the forums went into detail with us about the proceedings of her assessment and diagnostic report from an assessor that used all the high social functioning traits of autism ~ to prove that she did not have the traits of low or non social functioning autism:

https://www.autismforums.com/threads/assessment-results-are-in-spoiler-its-apparently-not-autism.34994/

Emmsmum said:

I fully understand that autistic traits do not automatically equal autism, but the psychologist said to me that had I not scored so highly in non-verbal communication, she would have diagnosed me with autism. 

That can be though exactly what differentiates between people having autistic traits and as being on the diagnosable autistic spectrum, providing the diagnostic schedule of observation and interactions is used to the appropriate extent ~ keeping in mind that females are in evolutionary terms more predisposed to cooperation / communication in terms of child birth and rearing, and men more competition / individuation in terms of providing resources ~ in that hunting by oneself can be more rewarding, whereas giving birth by oneself can be dangerous.

Emmsmum said:

Thank you so much for the links to the article and academic paper, both of which I will copy and send when I lodge my complaint. 

Rather than making a complaint perhaps, make a query in respect of asking for a reconsideration or getting a second opinion ~ being that you were the one social camouflaging and personally masking, and as such neither you nor the diagnostician can really be held responsible for that.

If that makes sense?

Emmsmum said:

Luckily a my friend of 30 years has offered to write a statement in support of this also, outlining the intense social anxiety/problems I experienced and how I mask effectively. 

In my case after having been through quite a few psychologists and councillors due to minor breakdowns roughly every two years, and really major ones roughly every four years; my medical records were rather packed with the subject of my masking problems ~ so that was all covered and ready for the assessment even before I had it. 

Emmsmum said:

Who knows whether I will get anywhere with it, or whether they will close ranks, but I've got to try. Otherwise I will be saving up for an assessment elsewhere!

If the previous assessment is not reconsidered regarding the masking issues, make sure you that get reassessed by someone that specialises in diagnosing Adult Female specific Autism traits, such as by way of a recommendation from or even getting an assessment at one of The Lorna Wing Centres for Autism in Kent or Essex, with their link here being:

https://www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/diagnosticservices

Emmsmum said:

Thank you so much for sharing your experience, although I'm sorry you had trouble getting diagnosed, it does help to know I'm not alone. 

Well for added 'we are not alone' effect you might also then find the following thread on the Autism Forums website (more commonly once known as Aspies Central) as being worth a read also ~ as a well known female community member of the forums went into detail with us about the proceedings of her assessment and diagnostic report from an assessor that used all the high social functioning traits of autism ~ to prove that she did not have the traits of low or non social functioning autism:

https://www.autismforums.com/threads/assessment-results-are-in-spoiler-its-apparently-not-autism.34994/

Emmsmum said:

I fully understand that autistic traits do not automatically equal autism, but the psychologist said to me that had I not scored so highly in non-verbal communication, she would have diagnosed me with autism. 

That can be though exactly what differentiates between people having autistic traits and as being on the diagnosable autistic spectrum, providing the diagnostic schedule of observation and interactions is used to the appropriate extent ~ keeping in mind that females are in evolutionary terms more predisposed to cooperation / communication in terms of child birth and rearing, and men more competition / individuation in terms of providing resources ~ in that hunting by oneself can be more rewarding, whereas giving birth by oneself can be dangerous.

Emmsmum said:

Thank you so much for the links to the article and academic paper, both of which I will copy and send when I lodge my complaint. 

Rather than making a complaint perhaps, make a query in respect of asking for a reconsideration or getting a second opinion ~ being that you were the one social camouflaging and personally masking, and as such neither you nor the diagnostician can really be held responsible for that.

If that makes sense?

Emmsmum said:

Luckily a my friend of 30 years has offered to write a statement in support of this also, outlining the intense social anxiety/problems I experienced and how I mask effectively. 

In my case after having been through quite a few psychologists and councillors due to minor breakdowns roughly every two years, and really major ones roughly every four years; my medical records were rather packed with the subject of my masking problems ~ so that was all covered and ready for the assessment even before I had it. 

Emmsmum said:

Who knows whether I will get anywhere with it, or whether they will close ranks, but I've got to try. Otherwise I will be saving up for an assessment elsewhere!

If the previous assessment is not reconsidered regarding the masking issues, make sure you that get reassessed by someone that specialises in diagnosing Adult Female specific Autism traits, such as by way of a recommendation from or even getting an assessment at one of The Lorna Wing Centres for Autism in Kent or Essex, with their link here being:

https://www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/diagnosticservices