Worst work meeting ever

I'm not sure about my access to work helper...   I'll give them another go, but I don't get a good impression or feeling.

thank you so much for this!  I'm going through a lot of trouble at work at the moment.  They are saying they've made a lot of adjustments for me and provided a lot of support, but they haven't at all.  I've proven I can do the work, and have emails and letters in which they've praised my work in the past.  I just need an environment that I am relaxed and comfortable in without people making loads of noise around me and away from strong smells and I'm fine.  There are empty offices so I don't think it's unreasonable.  As time goes on with me being forced to sit with constant sensory overload I can feel everything getting a lot worse for me, and in the past when this has happened I've ended up either in loads of trouble or walking away from everything and everyone and not being able to return.

thank you so much for this!  I'm going through a lot of trouble at work at the moment.  They are saying they've made a lot of adjustments for me and provided a lot of support, but they haven't at all.  I've proven I can do the work, and have emails and letters in which they've praised my work in the past.  I just need an environment that I am relaxed and comfortable in without people making loads of noise around me and away from strong smells and I'm fine.  There are empty offices so I don't think it's unreasonable.  As time goes on with me being forced to sit with constant sensory overload I can feel everything getting a lot worse for me, and in the past when this has happened I've ended up either in loads of trouble or walking away from everything and everyone and not being able to return.

I think you need to calm down and take advice, as I suggested before talking further with them. Especially from the union on what adjustments are considered reasonable for teachers, what precedents are there.

The angry talk of discrimination usually helps in getting compensation after dismissal, but not always in keeping the job.

To keep the job you need to develop a very clear position which demonstrates that you are fit to do the job (my point 3) with reasonable adjustments. Just blaming them [although justified] might only trigger nasty tactics to push you out.

If you need another member of staff to teach for you, you might be headed for difficulties.

How about ear defenders?

Hi Raindrops, 

I've been through this several times.  While it can be character building in the end it's definitely a destructive process while you're going through it. 

The biggest and most important thing to protect yourself is everything in writing.  Even then you need to force the language to not be ambiguous, which can be even harder than forcing things to be in writing.  

If they refuse to engage with you in writing, send them your notes in writing.  You need to be as diplomatic and reasonable as possible and really give them every chance while stopping them from being able to play games.  It's unfair and it's hard, doesn't always work but I've found can be key at least to emotionally moving on. 

This can be something as simple as an email thanking them for the meeting and asking for a Timeline on when they think they may consider reviewing what adjustments they can make.  Something diplomatic that puts the responsibility on them to react.  Explicitly mentioning things like the equality act are very effective as well, but be prepared for an aggressive reaction unfortunately if you chose to assert yourself in this way. 

In my experience the response normally comes back verbally, which I had to follow up by emailing notes back and me being labelled as aggressive etc. 

It took me three constructive dismissals to learn how to use these tools to defend myself, importantly though they work.  Happy to help pass on my experiences if you want more help. 

I've been doing it 16 years! I think I can do it. My managers are trying to move me to a different area which would disable me.

Thinking differently for a second, would popping earplugs in for those last 5 minutes help? I'm trying to let your employer off the hook, just thinking if there's any pro-active action you can take to mitigate the issue.

This sounds perfectly reasonable to me.  And you should challenge it.  That adjustment would be negating the effect of your disability in reducing stress and anxiety, helping prevent a meltdown and enable you to work without the anxiety of the last five minutes of the day which you find the most stressful.

Occupational Health may be able to help, as they can advise that things should be done, but remember they are really to help your employer, not you.  You should be able to take someone in with  you to an appointment at occupational health, and this could be anyone, it is in support of you and the normal rules about who accompanies you do not apply.  Just explain to them when the appointment is made that you wish to be accompanied and also make it clear that you are autistic and would like to have someone who is knowledgeable about autism. 

My experience of Occupational Health is that it can take a lot of time getting through to them, they initially said of me that I was 'fit for all duties' which the employer can take anyway they wish!  It took a lot of objection from me and a further visit before I got someone who was sympathetic and the tide began to turn.

Remember there is no limit stated in legislation to the number of adjustments that can be made as long as they are 'reasonable' and they will help you in your job.  And if it transpires that more are needed in the future, they should also be given.  Five minutes assistance at the end of the day is not a great hardship for your school at all, and it will mean you will work so much better.  I got exactly the same thing from my employer about things being 'part of the job', but eventually, after a great deal of effort on my part, I managed to reach a satisfactory agreement and now things have settled down completely and I would say that now any problems at work are ironed out straight away with no argument at all and certainly no stressful 'quiet words'!

My previous comment about Access to Work still stands.  They have more power than anyone else as their reommendations would stand up as evidence in a tribunal and they are invariably accepted as such on occasions when they have been challenged by an employer.

Why did it stop for those other two year groups?  Were you given an explanation?  It hardly sounds like you're asking for the earth.  You're not asking for wheelchair ramps or hearing loops or changes to classroom colour schemes.  You're asking for one thing, not multiple things.  It sounds like they're simply making up excuses to suit themselves.  They're being extraordinarily uncooperative in my opinion.  I would do as others have said and go through a grievance procedure first, with some support from a union or some other staff representative.  You're not simply being fussy or a deliberate nuisance.  You have a diagnosed condition which makes certain conditions difficult for you to handle.  Such discrimination is inexcusable and as I see it indefensible.

Sorry last five minutes; not ten.

When I am teaching the music I am fine as I planned it and I know exactly what will happen in mach lesson.

My biggest stress is the last ten minutes of the day when I feel completely out of control and there is so much noise as the class are stacking chairs and getting ready for home time. I asked for someone to dismiss the class for me (one year group does on a Thursday, which is perfect) the other two year groups on Tuesday and Wednesday did for a while and it stopped.

I was told that if I got this I would keep asking for stuff and that I need to get used to it and it's part of my job. 

They said someone could come in and help me but I still had to be there. 

This is worse because then the class don't know who to listen to.

No, you are not wrong.  We get a diagnosis in order to give us answers to many of the questions that the struggles we have had in life have raised.  As you said, at least now you know why.  The school are being technically unlawful in their approach to this because they are discriminating against you.  If you had been diagnosed with some kind of other disability, such as a physical disability, but were still perfectly capable of doing your job properly then they would make the necessary adjustments for you if they were practicable.  The same if you had some kind of illness or condition that meant you needed support to do your job.  If you have done your job properly over all of those years and they haven't had any cause to complain about your performance, then they shouldn't be discriminating against you over this.  They must be aware of their obligations under the Equality Act, which means they cannot justify their demurral.  It is simply not good enough for them to say that every staff member has their own needs because the needs of disabled people will always be greater than those of non-disabled people.  Just out of interest, what kinds of adjustments would you need them to make for you?

The meeting was because I have just got my diagnosis. I have been at the same school for 18 years. if they look through my record, they will see that there have always been things that I struggle with but now I know why. Part of the the reason I wanted to get a diagnosis was because I thought it would help, maybe I am wrong.

Not wishing to be tedious, but also need to consider point 3 in my post, to avoid any mishaps.

Well I fit both 1 and 2 so more than fit the criteria.

I am very sorry to hear what happened. Everyone should read carefully and understand the equality act fully before disclosing the disability and approaching the employer about adjustments.

Rocinante gave an excellent presentation of the duty to make reasonable adjustment and the processes and I would just add this.

1. You need to read all the act, not just the adjustment bit.

2. Did they know you had a disability? Did you disclose it during recruitment? You don't have to. There were cases when employers dismissed for not disclosing and I think this went to tribunal and was deemed to be discrimination. You don't have to disclose. But you have to disclose if you want to to rely on the act, to have the protection and rights. If they knew and you were doing well in your job for a while, refusing reasonable adjustments or starting disciplinary procedures because you asked for adjustments would be discrimination.

3. Before the duty to make reasonable adjustments arises, you need to demonstrate that you can do the job. That your disability does not preclude you from performing in your role. It is a very fine line. Go very heavy on your impairments and needs, and they could argue that you are not fit for the role and that you did not disclose the whole extent of your impairments  to them, and for this reason they don't need to make any adjustments and can just dismiss you. This is what possibly they were grilling you about - how your impairments affect your ability to do the job and whether you in fact can do it.

4. So when you ask for reasonable adjustments, they should be reasonable, which is a vague  term for the courts to decide, but the needs and impairments you use as a reason for adjustments should not be something that basically undermines your very ability to do the job.  It should not put in question whether you can teach, like in 3). 

5. The definition of disability is doing things differently, in different way or needing more time.

6. So the adjustments you can ask should be ones that enable you to achieve the same result (i.e. teach) but in a different way in a different time. Again they should be reasonable - the school could argue that they cannot change the time table, the curriculum, the students, the buildings to accommodate you, you need to demonstrate that the adjustment is helpful for you, but does not undermine the job for the employer. There is a happy spot somewhere, but usually the employers are not forthcoming. You might want to think carefully and propose something specific in that happy zone..

7. Did you disclose it just without reason, because of new diagnosis? Or did you have some problems at work? Was the problem unofficial, known only to you and you asked for adjustments to help you cope better? Did you have performance reviews that say you are good at your job? In that case there is evidence that you can do the job and just need reasonable adjustments to cope better, reduce stress, improve productivity etc. This is one discussion.

8. Did you have any performance problem issue going on officially? In that case you can disclose and seek reasonable adjustments in the process of dealing with the issue. You could propose an adjustment in line ith 4) and 7) that would solve your problem and ask for more time to see and reevaluate your performance after a reasonable time - 3 or more months. 

9. If they refuse that and  proceed with the disciplinary action that would be failure to make reasonable adjustments that you could bring to tribunal for compensation.

I think you need to read the act carefully and understand how it applies to your situation. You should discuss your situation with the trade union or ACASS before talking to your employer again.

If you have a good performance track record and just asked for some reasonable things that would improve the productivity of your work, try to de-escalate it with them, don't go 'all tribunals' and try to make an amicable agreement. You will need to take advice and clarify your position as to the basis for adjustments - not questioning your ability to do the job, about the how you do it and that it is reasonable.

If things are sour and getting worse by the day, focus on documenting the process and all violations in anticipation of the tribunal. Take someone not from the company with you as support in meetings, don't go alone.

Good luck. 

Access to work are very good and well under used I agree.

Some managers have absolutely no idea.  They seem to think 'equality' simply means that everyone is treated the same way.

Not the case at all.

Equality means that you should be given adjustments to help negate any disability you have.  And it doesn't matter how many staff they have, or how many they have with a disability.

Many meetings I have found are of the type ' We'll discuss what we have decided' rather than have meaningful consultation.  Adjustments have to be reasonable to enable to enforce them - and ultimately only a tribunal can decide what is reasonable or not.

I know I have said many times that Access to Work is a good place to start, as they can both supply funding for adjustments which may fall beyond what is deemed 'reasonable' and also suggest adjustments that are reasonable which your employer would be well advised to follow.  For a start, it appears that your employer could do with autism training for managers and staff and it is one of the things that Access to Work will provide funding for.  You may also be able to get a support worker for a one or two sessions a month.  I get two sessions of an hour and a half each per month, one to accompany me for monthly 'supervisions' (all staff have monthly supervisions to discuss work) and the other for me to discuss any problems I have whether work or not.  My support worker will also act as a go between should problems at work occur, which have become very few and far between now.

Your school should have a grievance procedure, and you should consider using this.  In any case you couldn't go to a tribunal at a later date unless you have gone through a grievance procedure or one is in progress.  Just remember that there are time limits (three months minus one day) for putting the first stage of a tribunal, which would be 'Early Concilliation', and this would be from the date help was refused.  You should consider though other methods since however much you may think you have a case, the process is very very slow and no guarantee of success.  But it is there for you as a final resort,  if protests seem to be falling on deaf ears.

  You should also have a teacher governor whom you might be able to approach with your problem.  A grievance should be heard by someone not involved, which for a school would probably be a governor (since your grievance would be with the headteacher and deputy) or it may be someone from the county council.  It should not be a daunting experience, but you would need help with this in order to make the best case.  Are you in a union? 

If you are in a union, they may also be able to help with your Access to Work application and be with you when the assessment is done.  Access  Work is quite a painless application, it can be done online, and they will contact you soon afterwards and also your employer.  Your employer refusing to see them would give you evidence that your employer is being unreasonable, so they are unikely to refuse and in all probability your school is already dealing with them for other members of staff.  They will come into your school, interview you, and do a workplace assessment.  The people who assess for Access to Work are the same companies who do PIP assessments, but do not let that put you off.  They are on your side this time since the purpose of Access to Work is to keep you in employment.

Reasonable adjustments should include the right to be accompanied on many occasions when you have otherwise no statutory right.  You should have been accompanied for your meeting for a start.  And you should be given time to 'digest' information and questions, since a common problem for someone autistic is delayed comprehension.  Firing questions and information at you is likely to cause sensory overload, so once again they should not do this.  You could be given more time to prepare lessons, some classroom help, a room away from  distractions (such as away from extraneous noise) and equipment that would make your job easier. You should also be consulted about any changes to your work, since this can cause huge issues with someone autistic.  Remember the expert on any  problems you have is you yourself, so think about solutions to any problems you have at work.

Hopefully your head will be more reasonable about things in future. 

these ATL and TUC docs are useful. https://www.atl.org.uk/Images/equality-disabled-education-staff-atl-guidelines.pdf and www.tuc.org.uk/.../Autism.pdf

I'm a teacher and in school NEU rep, so am happy to offer some advice if you wish.

I have a somewhat similar situation in that I’m being told by line manager that ‘that’s just the job!’. Because I’m in a large organisation though I was able to contact HR and get a referral to Ocupational health (in a few weeks). Is there anything similar you can do as it does definitely sound as though you’re being discriminated against. For you maybe that would be via your union? I’d def try to sort it out without going to tribunal if you can, but if nothing else works that’s def an option. NAS helpline was very helpful on this actually (if you can get through)

Good luck.