Published on 12, July, 2020
Hi all,
I'd be very interested for your thoughts on the topic below.
I've been for probably close to 500 hours of therapy over the last two decades, and, whatever led me to start each individual run of therapy, I *always* ended up talking about my mother. During the last 18-month run of therapy (which was mainly couples therapy) it emerged that my mother is probably displaying traits of narcissism. That seems to be fairly objectively true, as underlined by several anecdotes where she has put her own needs before mine (not trivially, but where her actions were actively destructive towards me and unreasonable, as agreed by others including therapists) and then afterwards rewritten history to cast herself in the role of loving, caring mum.
I'm aware that part of my ASD (still tbc) means that I tend to get taken advantage of by those close to me, I placate others to avoid conflict even if that means negating my needs, and I have struggled to establish boundaries and be assertive.
So, what's getting my intellectual interest piqued (and not just for fun, as the answer may well unlock some personal growth and strength) is this: "Is it possible that my mother's narcissism and my ASD have combined to create a 'perfect storm'?"
What I mean by this is that my ASD seems to be a particularly receptive target for the damaging effects of my mother's narcissism, and make it *doubly* hard for me to see my mother's true character. It's well known that those trapped in relationships with narcissists struggle to see it because it is so carefully disguised as love and care, and this must be exacerbated if the trapped person natively struggles with boundaries, the ability to intuit intentions, read between the lines etc.
In the other direction too, if someone who is narcissistic cares little for others except that they feed their narcissistic needs, then this provides a *second* "double whammy" that frustrates the already difficult process of seeing ASD in a child who is by all external indicators flying through life, excelling at school, and gaining material success as an adult.
This would explain for me why it has taken 25 years for me to gain some objectivity and see how I've been overburdened with expectations from my mother and felt that it is my primary duty to adore her and do nothing to detract from her happiness. It also explains why I hated being dragged around her family doing "visits" when I was a child and she couldn't see for one minute why.
Thoughts? It seems to me that ASD and Narcissism together are a particularly hard combination.
p.s. for added fun in my family dynamics, my dad is almost certainly ASD and even I can see that my parents' relationship is, whilst stable and "effective", not particularly healthy. What I mean by this is that my mum has always visibly "babied" my dad (as noted by all of my extended family across all generations) meaning that he has not exercised himself in things that he is actually eminently capable of and early in their marriage became, and has remained, totally dependent on my mother - another self-perpetuating state of affairs which from my perspective presented and modeled an unhealthy model of the role of men in a male-female marriage and society generally.
p.p.s this gives some context to my post about Mothers Day - it's not *only* that I find traditions unwelcome and gift exchange economically inefficient!
I'm going threw the same thing my mom keeps me at the edge of suicide we with mental abuse and her bf physically/(Sexually?)whatever it is to openly masturbating in front of me while occasionally making rape jokes which causes PTSD flashbacks crippling me. I'm at the point I'd rather die then let this continue for another day. It's been going on since 2017 and seriously ramped up during 2020-2024 to the point I entirely believe I have brain damage from the abuse. The gaslighting hit such an extent this year that I lost a grip on yvrealiiity a o I don't even remember the last time I had a day where I didn't spend majority of crying.
They're doing this to financial exploit the disability payouts and her bf at the very least is doing it out of enjoyment.
You may need some other family members who do care about you to help you and support you..you have to do some thinking and maybe talk with family members and therapist you can trust to deal with this with your therapist about cutting ties with your mother as it is damaging to you and you need to heal .Sorry am.not much more help than that but myself am fu@#*d up as it is as I too had narcissistic mother I had to cut ties etc Wishing you well take care.
I think there is also something about autists that attracts the controlling personalities, or at least magnifies these traits in people.
When you think of it, we are quite a needy bunch on average - often stubborn with certain ways of doing things we refuse to deviate from and "odd" triggers to make us go into meltdowns.
There is also a common perception that we behave like children, have poor understanding of social queues and indeed many of our special interests are formed in childhood so this is understandable.
This must be frustrating for some neurotypicals and they feel the need to treat us like children - controlling us as they would a child.
This doesn't make it right. but I think I see why we attract these personality types.
I believe my mother is narcissistic in some sense. I believe some of it comes from social anxiety but the rest seems more fundamental. Anyone with any kind of condition or circumstances leading to social schism has a chance to result in social anxiety which can mask the root problem.
When I tell her I have Asperger's Syndrome her immediate response is to say things like she thinks she has it, her husband has it, her step mother has it. It's like she is constantly competing socially.
I got her to take the test and I was shocked myself at just how inverted compared to mine it was. I expected he to be closer to average and slightly tilt toward Asperger's Syndrome but not qualify. She definitely has something odd going on with her socially where she is not inherently aware of certain things that even I am that ought be obvious. This includes opening things in shops to get a better look then just leaving them like that.
I realised at some point I was avoiding her. I started standing up for myself after just not avoiding her. The results were devastating. I had been evasive since a child but forget why. As an adult it's different. She kept finding any excuse to have a go at me and tell me off or to try to manipulate me to get her own way. However, as an adult with experience with other adults I didn't stand for it.
I am not entirely proud of having to do it. When I stopped avoiding her instead confronting the issue I ended up making her cry. I got so angry when I realised what she was doing and how it had impacted me from childhood that I wrote the equivalent of a book on it some of which I deleted afterward because it was so devestating.
One thing that always bothers me is that whenever I show her something I achieved she always shuts me down and dismisses me unless it's what she wants me to do like make friends. She just doesn't seem to be able to tolerate when I'm better than her. I have no idea what kind of son she truly wants. Perhaps she never wanted one. She has had this weird feminist thing going.
My difficulties are bad enough with some social anxiety and PTSD like condition due to bullying or simply being less successful socially. This behaviour further adds to my difficulties.
I've never had to talk to a therapist. I'm intelligent enough to at least eventually figure out such things on my own.
I'm getting a bit frustrated with her diagnosis at a distance. I will not go into detail do to privacy but like in any family there are difficulties and I've seen her routinely peg members as either this or that when there are clearly conditions or circumstances that are a closer match and more likely.
The impact that this has in certain areas is to make things worse. Where I am strong intellectually there is no reward or reinforcement. I am treated like I don't exist. There is no encouragement to operate according to my actual strengths.
I'm so interested in what you wrote. Please can I ask you, how did you work out, find out, or realise that your mother is narcissistic? I believe my mother may be covert narcissistic, but then sometimes I wonder if she is actually just autistic too! I have aspergers.
I see in her, no empathy, focus on blaming everyone else, freaking out if you criticise or even gently point any mistakes or issues out to her, intense mood swings, sometimes I believe she utterly hates me but at others she seems to like me and enjoy being with me, paranoid type thoughts about others, not trusting anyone, telling me she is not angry when she certainly is, telling me I am mistaking her emotions eg she is tired not angry, telling me I cannot read her emotions, telling me she is not shouting when she is and blaming me for misinterpreting her, freaking out and melting down if anyone questions her or suggests she is being unreasonable, behaving like she is only about 5 or 6 emotionally, having multiple persons or masks, being hypocritical for example saying judgmental things all the time about others but judging me very very hard if I ever judge anyone, taking other people's side not mine if ever anything bad happens to me eg taking a bully's side if I am bullied and telling me she understands why they did what they did as if she is them and I am an awful person as the bully said, sometimes going silent for long periods, days, or hours, slamming doors, storming out, screaming and yelling that she can never do anything right, getting totally enraged if you question her opinion or suggest someone else's way of doing something is better than the way she does or did it, very controlling, and lots of other stuff.
I just do not know how to work out if she is a manipulative person or an autistic woman who is traumatised and overwhelmed by an austitic son, me. I'm an adult now. I really parented her as a child. She seems to have no grasp on emotions of others despite being extremely emotional herself. I really want to know to move on with my work on myself in therapy. Can you tell me how you identified your mother as narcissistic rather than autistic?
I really don't understand the need for such attention seeking behaviour. It used to get so exhausting for me having to put up with it. It's one of the many reasons why I no longer have a relationship with her. I just can't be dealing with all the drama!
I've always thought being autistic made it easier to see the "gaslighting" so it's interesting that you see it the other way?
Not in my case. Maybe I didn’t get in my ND head that people couldn’t be honest and want to play cruel games
Interesting thought. I can imagine that ASD would allow some emotional distance to see gaslighting in a relationship you're not involved in, but in my case I only became aware of what narcissism and gaslighting is about roughly a year before I suspected I had ASD (i.e. a couple of years ago) and had lived unaware of it at all until then.
Mine has a heart attack invisible to EKG machines. Or sometimes an invisible head injury. Told my sister I was dead once, got a phone call from my sister "are you dead?". I said "not really", she said "didn't think so!" But I'm done with Christmas Cards I've always thought being autistic made it easier to see the "gaslighting" so it's interesting that you see it the other way? My support worker obviously thought I'm deluded so you may be right.
My Mother has been known to 'fall to the ground in dramatic fashion' on more than one occasion. Basically she puts herself on the floor to get attention. Very histrionic!
I have a narcissistic mother. Often pretends to fall from top of staircase - while taking first step at the bottom. Throws herself into wooden cabinet at bottom of stairs - then plays dead. Wastes a lot of ambulance service time, and causes my trembling. That's kinda how I ended up on antidepressants.
I lock the garage door when spannering on the motorbike, to avoid her constant space invading, and non-stop nagging. She recently said one of my casual jackets looks "rough bugger" - then demanded I wear a jacket style of her preference. I'll be moving into a flat soon...
Indeed - with my mum I'm sure she doesn't know she's doing it. To her it isn't acting but an actual personality. As far as I know.
I'm really glad that your second wife is very different. One thing (among many) that bothers me about narcissists is their acting ability. Honestly my mother can give a performance worthy of an Oscar!
Funnily enough (although it's not funny) my first wife had a lot of affinity for my mother. Thankfully my second wife is very different!
Kitsune said:. I think that those with ASD are the perfect victim for narcissists as we can't see through their games and even if we do eventually then we have no clue how to show their true colours to the rest of the world or prove how badly we have been treated.
Yep!!
wow! This could have been me writing this about my own mother! My husband is also very much like my own mother in terms of personality, the ability to be hideously controlling in private but maintain a visage of a loving caring innocent person to the rest of the world! I too am inclined to placate others to avoid conflict. I think that those with ASD are the perfect victim for narcissists as we can't see through their games and even if we do eventually then we have no clue how to show their true colours to the rest of the world or prove how badly we have been treated. My solution with my mother was to cut all contact with her nearly 10 years ago. Ironic then that I've ended up married to a man that is so much like her!
Hi EITR - I will (standby for friend request....)
Hi IDWCC
PM me.... I have the book on this one!! :) ...or don't if you don't wish to
me: estranged from mother, sister, brother and recently left a narcissist who was also used the full spectrum of coercion techniques.. also going through the autism assessment process now....
I'd Done with Christmas Cards is one thing.. but I hope you are also done with stonewalling and gaslighting