Social services removing children from parents with ASD

That's not strictly speaking true though is it. Many of the cases where things 'go wrong' I suspect are those where social workers inappropriately invoke section 44.1.a or get the police to remove a child for them under section 46 and then the police apply for an epo under section 44.1.a because thats what the social worker told them to do. In these cases the child has been removed long before a child protection conference takes place.

Social workers often come into peoples lives at the worst moments. Bereavements, illnesses, accidents and injuries. Placed under stress particularly by some one they view as hostile and interfering does it really take much to make an autistic adult snap at a social worker, to seem obstructive or abusive. Or even if they don't how many social workers can make the distinction between the atypical presentation of stress or grief in an autistic person in a moment of crisis and so called 'red flags.' That's how an autistic parent ends up having their kids carted off by a police man before there are any meetings or lawyers involved.

In my view no EPO in relation to an autistic parents child should ever be granted with out an autism expert interviewing both child and parent first preferably separately and together. Of course to implement this practically requires every local authority to have an autism expert on call at all times.

My point was that the lawyer needs to raise the issue at the care hearing. Cross-examine the social worker and ask the SW their experience and knowledge about ASC. Refer to any diagnostic assessments etc. Ask the SW to explain their risk assessment.  Raise concerns with the CAFCASS guardian. Ask for permission to instruct an expert at the Directions Hearing. (That's where the judge meets parties a week or two before the hearing and says what he wants to be done, by whom and when.)

Even better, raise the issue at the Child Protection Conference. The parent should bring an advocate. Most authorities use the "Signs of Safety" model, and all the parties at the conference, including the parent, get to have their say. Other professionals (child's school, mother's carer/key worker/supporter, school nurse manager) will also be able to have their say at the conference. Each professional's opinions should be strengths-based and present the positives as well as the negatives.

There is not one social worker involved - there will be at least the social worker who did the investigation, their senior supervisor, the CAFCASS guardian and the Independent Chair.  Often there will have been Early Help professionals involved with the family. Finally, the local authority's legal department will review the case before applying for a Care Order, and the "no order" principle will apply unless the "significant harm" criteria are met. Getting a Care Order involves a lot of work ... the myth that a single social worker can just snatch kids and put them in care is precisely that, a myth.

Another important aspect to consider is generally the parents lawyer won’t get an actual autism expert in until after a child has been taken into care. So the court may have an autism experts opinion on the autistic parent and even their opinion on the child but they generally won’t have a report from the autistic expert on the parents interaction with the child. 
meanwhile in their other hand they’ll have a scary report from a social worker about how the autistic parent seemed oblivious to the child’s physical or emotional needs or didn’t reciprocate the child’s affection. An autism expert would understand that concern doesn’t always register on an autistic persons face while they are concerned. That a parent apparently not showing attention to their child might be compartmentalisation where they are putting back dealing with their children’s non urgent  needs until after the social worker has left because just having the social worker their is mentally exhausting and they don’t want to split their attention unless it’s an emergency.

but by construction an autism expert doesn’t get to make that assessment because by the point they turn up the child has been removed.

you mention assessments any autistic adult should have a needs assessment this was not done for myself I was then refused an advocate by the local authority and the court due to social workers manipulating professionals to think they had done their job done but in realistically they had not adhered to the statutory guidance as u know there for professionals to adhere to the law so when they dont interact with family and friends or offer advates or notice an individuals stressed behaviour .

I have not met a social worker who knows the difference between a tantrum and a meltdown I dont even feel like talking to u u think you experience is relevant I have 35 qualifications and already proven u take things personally on a autistic website interacting with autistic individuals who are probaly highly emotional are u antagonising behaviours 

point proven alot of people take things personally when they shouldn't tut tut no you are being horrible to an autistic person who had no intention of being personal very abusive but carry on with your experience 

Please do not make "you" statements. It is disrespectful.

But, since you are being personal - I have experience as a social worker with looked after children and as an Education Welfare Officer and Early Help specialist working with mainstream and SEND schools. In addition to my social work qualification, I have a postgraduate diploma in Education Equality and have completed NAS training for working with ASC students in higher education. I have also trained social workers in avoiding family conflict. I am also neurodivergent myself and work with other professionals who are also autistic or otherwise neurodivergent.

I say "hopefully" because although training is available, that does not mean that every social worker will necessarily take the training - All social workers have to take annual training, but no individual can access all the training that is on offer. This year I have had training in autism, transgender children, asylum seekers and SEND ... but there are a lot more courses that I have not accessed because I did not have the time or I had to prioritise something else.

The social worker carries out an assessment and gives an opinion. The local authority applies for a Care Order.  In Care Proceedings, the parent and the child are legally represented. The Children's Guardian also makes a report. The parent's lawyer can question witnesses and ask to call their own experts. Then the JUDGE decides based on the evidence.

Some parents are unable to meet their children's needs. There is a  "significant harm threshold" that must be met before the court will even start proceedings. Children are not removed "because" they or their parent is autistic (or has learning difficulties, mental health problems or substance abuse issues). Local authorities want to avoid taking children into care because it costs huge amounts of money. (In 2019, CIPFA estimated that foster care costs start at £33.5k per year. Specialist placements can easily run into six figures.)

My impression is the courts work reasonably well most of the time at safeguarding autistic peoples rights if you have A) a lawyer with a really good understanding of autism or B) an articulate autistic person with a really good grasp on the law and C) in either case lots of money. Failing that things slip through the cracks.

As has been said social workers and mental health professionals often think they know a lot more about autism than they actually do. Honestly 'hopefully' doesn't cut it when you're talking about the governments agents respecting peoples human rights and the right to respect for ones family life is a human right.

Actually social workers being ignorant of autism wouldn't be an issue if they could be honest about that and say to their bosses and the courts "I'm not qualified to speak on whether this child's needs are being met or whether the parent is a danger." Of course at this point they'd need to pull in specialists with experience with autism, and a good lawyer will get those specialists into court. But generally that should be the starting point long before it ever gets to court or applications to the court.

the judge comes to this decision due to the social worker who does not have any qualification in SEND children or adult has limited qualifications and legal duties. It clearly states in the adult implementation of the adult autism strategy thee is no social worker who should be working with any autistic parent without the correct skills competence knowledge and professional qualifications as per ethics and principles on the from Social Work England and British Association of social workers. so any time a social worker comes into contact with a autistic family there is no excuse for removing a child apart form systemic discrimination and manipulation and lack of services or support being offered this is also law in line with the autism act but alot of social workers ego doesn't let them accept they do not have the expertise to comment on a autistic person despite experience as loads of children have work experience dont mean they can do the job like A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL. YOU CAN DO IT BUT ARE YOU DOING IT RIGHT TWO FOOLS WILL THINK YES SO IF THE MANAGEMENT THINK THERE DOING IT RIGHT AS HAVE HAD NO APPROPRIATE TRAINING THEN EVERY ONE THEY COME INTO CONTATC WITH WILL SUFFER

u have an opinion which is evident from "hopefully" but reality is u have probably never been in the situation so dont understand what really happens and fools listen to fools if everyone is lacking training who are u learning of the most or least educated person in the room an don one has any SEND training so how can u make comments outside of there professional qualifications 

how as a social worker are u not conflict management trained talking to families about conflict 

Hopefully, social workers are becoming more aware of autism. If you find yourself facing family law proceedings, you need to get a lawyer who is autism-aware. Your lawyer should be able to get statements and expert witnesses to point out the errors in the authority's assessment. If your child is autistic there should be school reports, assessments, EHCP etc.. If you as a parent are autistic, again you should have assessments and documentation. Please do not try to fight the local authority without a lawyer to argue your case and cross-examine the social worker professionally.

Do NOT rely on Google and websites and try to go it alone. The person who defends himself in court has a fool for a client. Social workers have many years of training and the support of the authority's legal department, and even so, they sometimes get it wrong. Lay advocates can help you with the emotional impact of a social care involvement, but you also need good legal advice.

Social workers do not want to take kids into care. Their managers do not want them to take kids into care unless it is really necessary - getting a case to Family Court costs thousands of pounds, and the cost of keeping kids in care is a huge strain on the authority's budget.

At the end of the day, it is the judge who decides that the threshold for significant harm has been met and that a Care Order is necessary. The default is the Court will not make an order if there is any other way of resolving the matter - the " no order principle"

I was in a court room and the judge refused me an advocate so what should happen and what really happens are two different things 

firstly I am sorry to hear that I am also a autistic adult but black male and have had my daughter adopted due to what id summarise is lack of professional candour and lack of equality and diversity, racism and ostracisation

I would like to outline some major legal documentation alot of local authorities social workers and public authorities dont like to adhere to when interacting with DIFFERENT PEOPLE. 

first thing I will say is get yourself a adult social and have a needs assessment done to identify what your difficulties are and what support u do need with or without children (this should be part of your transition plan being that alot of autistic people have difficulties with transitions and significant life events then having a child would of been such. How was you supported?) 

I would then advise u to google and research on Statutory guidance for local authorities and NHS organisations on the implementation of the adult autism strategy (statutory means schools have an obligation under law to carry out this.)this is in line with the adult autism strategy

if u have had a SEN report when u was a child there should be information already to what support u should have and receive if this support has not been put in place due to lack assessments then all support that was given as a child should be kept in place until new support is put in place and your needs are being met

I would also like u to pay attention to the equality act 2010 which states discrimination by association means any child u have if you are discriminated against then you are to and anyone who you are related to and didnt recevie the support you or they should of received 

the main principle of the children's act is to keep children within their families by all possible means this would include providing support to their parents where that support can be provided.

all social workers have a duty of care o communicate effectively if this was not done effectively due to your autism needs whether they be u need face to face contact only (teams or something if not able) or only written so if they constantly phone u then u put in. complaint as people as this would be a reasonable adjustment that could be made 

you could also look into a advocate who will also help to uphold your rights as a autistic individual this could be from Age uk or via your local authority adult social worker this does not have to be a stranger (professional)but can also be a family or friend or both stranger(professional and family member) who the social worker can interact with you over high flare situations that alot fo them exploit. Due to there lack of knowledge.

ask a social worker the difference between a tantrum and a meltdown. Not many know the difference which in itself is very frightening 

I had my daughter's removed a year ago purely for having aspergers, I am going to fight with all my might to get them back, no one was autism aware on my case and no allowances were made, my whole family have been alienated for over a year including their 20 month old cousin, they have been placed with my youngest daughter's  paternal grandparents so therefore my eldest has no relation to them and they have psychologically abused my daughter's telling them they'd never see their auntie again and that I would be sent to prison, I have looked after the girls from birth on my own with no assistance, I fully intend to take this as far as it can go to get them back, I had a positive parenting assessment also but nevertheless the paternal family to my youngest got granted an SGO, the girls have been there 10 months not a year like the criteria says and they also had no representation yet their opinion was always listened to by the social worker, guardian and judge yet I was bullied for my aspergers.

Dear M, 

I would like to challenge your comment relating to your claims about 'fear mongering in this thread'. Fear mongering is not a fair comment for this thread in particularly when parents are sharing their own lived experiences of the discrimination they have received from Local Authorities. Like I have raised many times this is a real issue, you might have not personally experienced it but that doesn't mean it does not happen. A lot of parents are too frightened to speak out, not only that Family Court puts all cases under gagging orders to prevent case's being spoken about, this law was originally made to protect the child however the problem is if the case was unlawful society doesn't hear about it unless the judge decides to wavier the gagging order, which is unusual. Hence why the general public aren't aware that this is a problem. The most important thing is for this to be a place where autistic parents who have had similar experiences to be able to share them without fear that they won't be believed. The more people who come forward the better. 

I research this area, I train professionals about how to work with autistic parents, I work with many other professionals including independent social workers who have seen case after case of autistic parents having their human rights violated.

I am working with a group of people trying to raise awareness and make MPs aware that this is happening. It takes time, but watch this space, it will come out eventually. 

I recommend autistic parents uk, the first organisation for autistic parents. 

Secondary I recommend: NATALIE MARRISON Ramsdens solicitors should you wish to pursue litigation or contact the good law project or pro bono. 

Unfortunately there are many autistic parents who have had their human rights violated and their children removed, we need to speak out. Unless society is aware that the current child protection system has many potential pit falls for autistic parents to fall into; change will never happen. 

Thank you for sharing. I unfortunately know exactly what you mean. 

I have also become painfully aware of the fact that I am not alone in what happened to me, and that autistic individuals (and parents) continue to be discriminated against by Local Authorities - whether directly or indirectly.

I recall the feeling of disbelief when reading research about autistic mothers having their human rights violated.. particularly when I noticed they had been written years prior to what happened to me... and it is all still the same.

I am exhausted, and this experience has changed me. And yet I still feel like I cannot stand by quietly while this continues to happen to others.

That is a horrible thing to go through for you all. I hope things are much better for you now.

I haven't had my girl taken away from me before but its been threatened a few times because of my mental state because of depression and because I let my physical health slip sometimes, both I'm trying to work on.

I would also love to know if anyone could recommend any solicitors to pursue a claim against a Local Authority for discrimination based on disability (ASD) by Social Services.

It's incomprehensible how Local Authorities are so blatantly ignoring the Human Rights Act, and are openly discriminating against autistic individuals and autistic parents.

I thought legislation, procedures, rules, codes of conduct, and etc would protect me. But the reality is that they don't protect you unless the SW (or whoever else you are dealing with) follows them.

And whether or not the SW (or whoever else) followed the rules becomes irrelevant once safeguarding procedures have started, because "complaints" cannot interfere with safeguarding procedures.

Once you are in it, you have no choice but to go through it all.

And unfortunately it's not going to stop until Local Authorities start to be held accountable.

ah yes and how many of these people involved in the review are actually autistic themselves? It occurs to me that every time the system Deign's to admit there is an issue with the way autistic people are treated they never seem to put an autistic person in charge of reforming the system.

Social Services are local services - there are national laws and policies, put each local authority decides on how its services are structured and managed.  There is a major review of Children's Services in progress at the moment (December 2021).  The DoH and BASW has published "Capabilities Statement for Social Work with Autistic Adults".  BASW has also set up a group for neurodivergent social workers  (i.e. social workers who are themselves neurodivergent) which is aiming to educate our neurotypical peers. There is, hopefully, light at the end of the tunnel.

Hi different perspective i myself do not have autism however my child does and he was removed by social services and detained for 2yrs,everyone refused to use,mention or take on board his autism during proceedings and he was treated like a normal person rather than one who has difficulties or asd as a contributing factor