Social Skills - What do you think?

... same again and in truth, there is no motivation for me to sit and listen to someone babbling when I could be reading a book about Abraham Lincoln or Socrates. I have zero interest in most of their babble and even less, in fact, zero interest in faking interest. I did that. It nearly killed me. But fortunately for me it never, and now I’m never trying that again. 

I never could fake it, so why try? It’s a ridiculous proposition, now I understand myself. It’s like banging my head against a brick walk. Only I want to bang theirs! lol! 

Same 

Plastic, this is a good tactic and one ive used!

Having read lots about AS and as self-diagnosed one of the things which comes up is people with AS will talk and not notice the listener is bored. I have found this to be the case with people i would class as neurotypical. They can go on and on. On reflection i think its because I dont give off signals of boredom because i want to be polite (a people pleaser) and i have only lately started to learn that sometimes you need to do what everyone else does and think about your own needs in a social situation.

Re asking reciprocal questions in a conversation i know plenty of people (classed as typical) who when in their company are often so self absorbed they dont ask a single question to me. Again i used to think its because they were not bothered about me. Then i thought it was their problem. Then i learned you have to give a little bit then they will (sometimes) dig deeper. The problem i have is sometimes thry dont ask a question (so do i just continue) or what i say doesnt come across as meaningful so they dont dig deeper. Or, they do dig deeper but i myself dont know where im going with it so it fizzles out.

Id also like to add that growing up id often notice i would start talking about something and i knew the other person didnt have my full attention. I used to have a complex i was boring then i thoughts turned to well its they who are rude. Now i think its because when i am listening to someone they have my full attention and i expect the same from others when in reality ive realised a lot of social communication is just for the sake of it with no real purpose. This is one if the reasons i think i have AS as ive had to LEARN these things after analysing myself and others. And that things have become more apparent as ive read about AS.

Hi binary, you know I’m loving Daniel Wendler’s social skills book so I won’t bore you by discribing it a second time.

My personal experience is that social skills can be learned. I personally don’t view it as masking. To me it’s like all my life I didn’t know social skills because I don’t learn them naturally and no one ever taught me (I highly suspect my mum also has ASD). But now I have this handbook that teaches me, step by step how to do social skills. I’m not pretending to use social skills, I am actually using them and it is becoming natural. It’s a bit like if I studied a book to learn how to speak french, I wouldn’t be pretending to speak french, I would actually be speaking french. Not sure if I explained that too well so hope it makes sense? 

Your issues with social interaction are things that I also struggle with myself. I’m working very hard on not interrupting people when they are talking, this can be difficult though when someone is talking for ages and I really want to say something. I’ve learned to use ‘the interruption hand’ though, basically raising your hand to about chest height in front of you indicates to your conversation partner that you wish to say something, in theory they then stop speaking and let you say something, I have to say this has had variable success, some people stop and let me speak, but some people just don’t take the bait (so to speak) or they just don’t want to stop talking!

I still misinterpret jokes and over react, I reserve the overreacting for those I live with though. That’s just how we are, we can’t change that.

I still need to find time to do that online coaching module on how to make small talk and the purpose of small talk and how to use small talk to build meaningful relationships. Presently I’m pretty clueless about the point of small talk but once I learn what the point of it is then I’ll let you know.

im also very good at talking at length about something that interests me, I’m pretty sure that I manage to bore/annoy people by doing this though I’m making extra effort not to ‘go on’ for too long these days.

I guess to summarise, we can learn social skills per se, in that we can learn how to have meaningful conversations, how to make friends, read body language etc and that can become natural but we can’t change who we are, we can’t suddenly start getting the hidden meaning in what people say or stop being super interested in a particular subject and wanting to talk about it loads. We can though, I believe, use those social skills to build more meaningful friendships and to widen our social network. Whether or not anyone decides to choose to learn social skills comes down to a cost benefit analysis: does the benefit of making more friends and having a better social life outweigh the cost of having to overcome social anxiety and also having to manage the mental exhaustion that socialising causes? For me the benefit does outweigh the cost, since starting to implement what I am learning in the social skills book and making more friends my self esteem has improved loads, I’ve managed to stop hair pulling which is something that I’ve done since childhood and I generally feel so much less restless and figity. The social anxiety was bad at first but has massively reduced and as long as I allow a few hours quiet ‘me time’ after social engagements to recuperate then all is good. Everyone is different though. What do you and others think about this?

Ye I can't stand seeing myself on video at all. Let alone watching my attempts at social interaction. I'd never thought about actors watching their work back. I know if it was me I would criticise every part of my performance (that just seems to be my natural setting). 

Ye I agree about the plan never working out. How do you lower your expectations? You seem to have a lot more control over your thought processes than I do. I see your point about the game thing though.

The problem with this strategy is I have the world's worst poker face. People always say I look bored when they've been talking for a while. I just switch off completely. Even kids that I work with have turned round and said are you even listening to me. It must be really obvious when I have stopped listening. Haha.

Oh yeah, if they do get a chance to speak, I reserve the absolute right to but in at any given moment, and demand full attention, with accompanying awe, at what I just said! ~ this is rule number 1! 

Yes, part of the expectation thing (this is what I’ve noticed in me) is due to my inner need to be in control and have a plan worked out etc, for what I’m going to say and do etc. 

The plan ~~~~~~~ NEVER works out exactly as I plan it. 

So I realised, all of this stuff is related to the autism, my plans never work out anyway, why not start taking some chances and learning to lower my expectations and therefore leave some room for surprises etc. Oh, and yes, if we want to interact, we have to accept, that others, in fact most likely everybody, will have a different way of doing things to us. So if we bare that in mind, it’s easier to decide whether playing the game, for example, is worth it to us if others won’t play by our rules. And make a decision based on that. 

If only we had the gift of being able to see ourselves as the rest of the world sees us.  I think I would just cringe the whole time.

I often wonder how it must be for film actors when they go to see films that they're in.  Are the constantly looking for ways to improve their performance?  Are they looking for all the things they're doing wrong?  Are they conscious of all their little physical imperfections? (Goodness... don't my ears look big at that angle!)  I don't think I could do it.  It must take supreme self-confidence.

The easiest way to deal with this is to start the conversation - "anyone got anything nice coming up?" Then let them do all the talking - you're classed as a good listener then.

Not entirely sure what that means!

See it's funny. I get your rules. I hate being interrupted. But I'm so bad for interrupting. Thoughts pop into my head and spill out my mouth before I've had chance to think it through.

I think part of my issue with social situations is I have an expectation in my head of how things will/should go. And I find it hard when it doesn't go that way. Like the game example. My expectation of playing a game doesn't involve conversation.

See I hate conversations like this. Conversations to me have a purpose. I can't stand conversation for the sake of conversation. I wouldn't pick up on a hint like this. Even if I did I wouldn't respond because I'd want the conversation to be over. I'd only be interested if they had been somewhere that I was going or possibly if it was somewhere I'd been that I really liked.

I would never think to ask that. I would more likely be thinking, why is this idiot telling me they’ve just come back off their holiday and most of the time, I would ask them! And I would probably add, what part of me told you that I would be remotely interested in where you’ve just come from? 

It became instinctive to me and if there’s one thing I would regret in life (but I don’t), it would be that. That I got so good at masking, that it became my instinct. It still brought me absolutely no reward whatsoever, so now I don’t do it. 

My task now, is to unlearn what I learned, that isn’t useful to my new awareness of the diagnosis, use what is useful and create a life that is suited to me, regardless of what that looks like to anybody else. And I accept absolutely, no barriers to what I want. Why would I? Haven’t I got a right to a meaningful, happy, productive and successful life, in whatever way that means to me? 

So no, I have enough skills at communicating with nt’s to do what I need to do, and that’s enough for me. For now anyway, and isn’t now, all we have? 

Honestly, I’m ruthless. I’m like, you want to be in my company? Ok, here are the rules.

You sit down, shut up and listen. And you don’t move until I’m finished. Not even if your granny’s about to die. I don’t tolerate interruptions! ~ so, do you want to be in my company? 

I don’t hate all social interactions, on the contrary, I’m a very outgoing social being, with a lot to say ~ incase you haven’t noticed ;) but I choose my interactions more carefully now. Now I know what the hell’s going on! Lol! Prior to diagnosis I was clueless and simply blagging my way through life, using every trick in the book. But not anymore. 

I am now in charge of my life and I am therefore in charge of who I chose to spend time with. 

I love socialising with people when I’m doing an activity I love, so I’m creating my life around activities I love. I’m only at the beginning of my journey. In fact, to be fair, I’m barely off the starting block because before I got started, I had to take time to get to know myself. What I like and don’t like etc etc and what I like but can only handle in small doses etc. 

It’s a bit like doing a puzzle. Getting to know the pieces and how they will all fit together in a way that suits me. That is congruent to my nature and creates harmony and peace, for all people, not just me. Of course I have no control over other people, but I like our interactions at least, to be loving, kind, thoughtful and truthful etc. 

And I don’t dislike nt’s. Far from it. It’s just that we see the world differently, we have a different language, different interests, values, goals etc etc. Neither is right or wrong, they’re just right for the individual. I’m eternally grateful to the support that could only come from nt’s, but it doesn’t mean I want to spend my time hanging out with them. That’s like asking a fish to go golfing! But I value their presence in my life and in the world, I just keep it to a minimum. 

'Wud some pow'r the giftie gi'e us

to see ourselves as others see us.'

Robbie Burns

It reminds me, too, of the time I split up from my last partner.  We were at that end-stage of the accusations and charges.  She said to me:

'You would come in every morning and just sit there and talk and talk and talk and never let me get a word in edgeways.  Then, when I managed to prise something in, you would constantly interrupt me. You never listened!'

I didn't remember it that way at all.  That's part of it, I suppose.  I feel I'm doing the right things in conversation... and it turns out that I'm not after all.

Hint being dropped.  I've just come back from holiday.

Your response,. Where did you go?, .did you enjoy it,.....

Ye it's interesting. Maybe I should just film myself everywhere I go.

I have become more aware of the parts I get "wrong" in social situations and I'm becoming more aware of when it irritates people. I just don't seem able to change the way I interact.

But then I think. Do I want to? Do I need to? I have no idea.