Hans Asperger

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/19/hans-asperger-aided-and-supported-nazi-programme-study-says

I have to say that since I first read Steve Silbermann's book 'Neurotribes' about a year plus ago, I have been wondering if it was entirely the case that Asperger tried to keep his subjects away from the Nazi euthanasia programme. This morning's headline is thus no great surprise. And as Sachs-Cohen and Silbermann have already indicated their belief in the emerging facts, I'm not about to get too emotive about it. Regardless of DSM-5, my diagnostician decided it was still a valid term for an older adult who had lived for some years with some knowledge of that label. And I'm not about to avoid that label, myself. I suppose I might as well be the first person on the forum to ask what happens next, because I would guess that not everyone will be quite so philosophical about it as me. I have to admit, I have never really taken very kindly to 'aspie'. I find it a bit patronising; but I'm now wondering if some of that discomfort is down to the fact that I have sort of half expected that the hero thing was not quite the full story. And Kanner, for all his input, wasn't beyond criticism either.

''Carol Povey, director at the National Autistic Society in the UK’s Centre for Autism, said: “We expect these findings to spark a big conversation among autistic people and their family members, particularly those who identify with the term ‘Asperger’. Obviously no one with a diagnosis of Asperger syndrome should feel in any way tainted by this very troubling history.” 

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  • Who exactly is this Herwig Czech and what are his motivations for carrying out this research?

    Something that I'm concerned about is how this is spread like wildfire through the mainstream media. It seems like every English language media source has run away with the story. In contrast Lorna Wing's 1981 paper remained a near secret outside of a small circle of academics for over 10 years. It was referenced by media sources in her obituary but how many journalists even knew of its existence back in the 1980s? Even references to the milestone books about Asperger syndrome by Uta Frith and Tony Attwood have only had a minimal mention in the mainstream media and often years after they were published.

    I can't help but thinking that there is some malevolent behind the scenes project going on by certain factions of the Jewish community to discredit Hans Asperger.

    It's the beginning of the end of Asperger syndrome. In a few years it will be labelled as just autism but the clock will also be turned back so that the only autism which counts will be traditional Kanner autism. Anybody who still wants to push AS (regardless of what it's called) will be vilified as a sympathiser of a Nazi war criminal.

    I suspect that Lorna Wing, Uta Frith, and Tony Attwood will be consigned to the dustbin of history as naïve fools who just wanted to make a name for themselves whilst failing to understand who Hans Asperger was. So will Luke Jackson. I also suspect that JKP will stop publishing books about AS. 

    The eugenics is a mere side show. There was plenty of support for eugenics in Britain both during the early 20th century and today. It's collaborating with the *** that's Hans Asperger's crime. This is just as unforgiveable in academia as it is in the real world.

  • Herwig Czech is a historian, and the motivation is presumably being researching history. Uta Frith and others have issued statements agreeing that this was valuable research.

    I'd agree the media seem to have over-reacted, and would suggest it's probably worth reading Czech's paper in full (which I haven't yet) before coming to a firm opinion.  I wouldn't read too much into it as regards the status of AS.  The autistic community absorbed AS years ago, although the term 'aspie' is still used.  As the editorial suggests, Wing could equally have credited two Jewish members of Asperger's team, Frankl & Weiss.

    I don't see your basis for saying 'the clock will also be turned back so that the only autism which counts will be traditional Kanner autism'.  The dividing line was always quite blurry - some people speak under some conditions, and not others.

  • I'd agree the media seem to have over-reacted

    I'm intrigued to know why the media have overreacted. Has Herwig Czech gone as far as informing media outlets or press agencies about the publication of this paper?

  • It's not just the Guardian. Almost every English language news outlet has latched onto the publication of the paper. It's gone viral. I can't help thinking that Herwig Czech has friends in the media.

  • Yes, the psychiatrists may have been deceiving themselves regarding Asperger's character. He wasn't strictly speaking a Nazi in the sense that he wasn't a member of the party.  You're of course correct that 'nice' and charming people can still be responsible for great evil - and the Nazi bureaucracy did keep a lot of records showing that evil. There is some limited evidence of Asperger using anti-Semitic language, but yes the main charge is of approving the sending of disabled children to their death.  We can no longer believe that he was 'actively saving vulnerable children’s lives' and opposing the system.

    What we can do is reject the classification of people into worthy and unworthy based on intellectual characteristics. We're all autistic together.

  • Casindro I have read the interesting article in the Guardian and it says that  Lorna Wing only met Hans Asperger once and she said she is sure he was not a Nazi. With due respect to Lorna Wing  I do not know how she can tell by one meeting what Hans Asperger's actions and thoughts were during the Hitler period.  Goering seemed charming but the Nuremburg  Court did not go by outward appearances they went by documents  Stalin appeared a very nice man but he killed millions of people.  I want to remind you that Hans Asperger is accused of  sending disabled Children to their death in a clinic  not with the murder of Jews.

  • I'm intrigued to know why the media have overreacted. Has Herwig Czech gone as far as informing media outlets or press agencies about the publication of this paper?

    Here's the press release: https://www.biomedcentral.com/about/press-centre/science-press-releases/19-04-18

    Not every paper in Molecular Autism will get such a fanfare. I think scientific press releases are put out partly to promote journals and academic institutions, usually more so than individual researchers, when they've got something they think the press will be interested in. The Guardian I fear has become a bit more sensationalist under Katherine Viner and it's been said that what sells papers is royalty/celebrity, murder and sex (preferably all together). You could add to the list a morbid fascination with ***Natzis and certain medical conditions (they had a depression non-story on the front cover yesterday).

    Here's an informed article with more depth than the Guardian: www.theatlantic.com/.../


  • I'm intrigued to know why the media have overreacted.

    Well Autism awareness has recently increased somewhat due to this article:


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3502928/EVERY-one-autistic-spectrum-experience-key-symptoms-just-varying-degrees.html


    As covered this scientific publication:


    https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2017.4


    And there has been long standing argument anyway about Hans Asperger not being as honourable as people thought, but until recently there had been no available evidence to support such claims.

    Perhaps read at least the start of Czech's paper on the already above but here again provided link:


    https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13229-018-0208-6


    Has Herwig Czech gone as far as informing media outlets or press agencies about the publication of this paper?

    The story was sourced from:


    https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13229-018-0208-6


    By Kate Connelly in Berlin as follows:


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/19/hans-asperger-aided-and-supported-nazi-programme-study-says


    It is most likely the reporter found the paper herself or receives new publishings anyway. You could contact the paper to inquire perhaps if otherwise.


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