Accommodating NTs

I'm happy to box your ears any time @Lonewarrior. :-)

Thank you for allowing me to tell you who I think I am. This has been a very steep and hard learning curve, it has given me much to think about, thank you for the cuff round my face, I needed that more than any offer of caring or love, it was given in such a manner that I did not reject it from fear or over thinking, I actually smiled, so something to think about there, a fine line to tread, to much love, to little, 

Please visit if you feel able, you have helped so many including me, your questions caused me to dig deep and try to understand myself, BlueRay answered so much for me, but without your question this would not have happened, 

I am filled with hope for you all, his smile and touch was by far the most loving thing freely given, you suddenly connected, 

Thank you again, this has helped me tremendously.

 My ambition is to spread the word about injustice for all who are on the autistic  Spectrum. Oh yes my mention of aspie man? When I started my research he was denigrated by so many, I have since learnt this is so wrong, he is not understood, I am proud to be an aspie man,

I found only NT judgements who had no clue as to the complex ways of him.

and please accept my freely given hug for you all () ()()() X xxx.

Hello All:

I imagine you've likely heard enough of me in this forum by now but I had to post to express my profound thanks to you collectively. I've read & re-read all of your posts & replies to my question greedily, because I want so much to "know". Your generosity in helping me is astounding. Thank you in no way properly expresses my gratitude to each of you. It is particularly exceptional to me because as an NT I have not before met such a kind, sincerely "teaching" reception having asked for help in such a forum. Thank you.

Too, having learned in a short time, a great deal from what you've offered, I owe the community an apology for my clumsily worded question that began this thread. I thought that after decades of teaching children & adults on the spectrum, parenting my daughter w/ASD & especially my 25 yr marriage to a spouse on the spectrum, I understood so much. Perhaps I know methodology & what has seemed to "work", but there was much I did not understand. Re-reading my question, I wince at my assumption that my family members always have the behaviour choices I do, based on a logical progression of "facts" if nothing else. Today, I could not ask about "100% refusal to adapt" or trying to convince an individual to "attempt change" on my behalf. The unseen grit those in this forum display simply existing w/the pain & self-denial of trying to adapt, fit in & avoid unintentional injury to others hit me like an avalanche. I apologize for assuming in my question that I was being offended against when it is now clear that this is not the case. I am sorry.

Your words gave me the ability to ask my spouse some very brief & precise questions that he was able to answer. He was surprised I could ask them. We were both surprised he had & could express the answers. Such questions & answers in any relationship, particularly one so long, address multiple layers & in this case, instantly unraveled many, many painful events. This is an intimate forum in which the members offer help on the most private of issues. If it were not, I could not describe the single question that made the most difference. It was, "When you did x, when you failed to do x, did you know the consequences then & unable to act, watch in horror as things unfolded, taking on more pain because you knew it was going to happen?" We went over & over this question applied to many significant events & he was more than willing to do so. The answer was often, "Yes, I knew what would happen, could not make myself intervene & until this moment did not know how to say so." To me, it meant that his behaviours that have often caused major catastrophe, were rooted in neither callousness or emotional ignorance as i had concluded. 25 yrs of "understanding" that my gentle spouse either had no love for me or his children or was too emotionally impaired to love anyone, vanished. Just gone. He smiled at me this morning, his 62nd birthday & touched my arm. He hasn't touched me in any way in nearly 8 years. In our home, that was the equivalent of a rollicking celebration. He too has had a few chains removed.

A long way to go & it's not a fix. For me though, it answered the most important question that for 25 yrs i thought i had the answer to. I didn't. He does love us. 

Thank you all. 

What happened!? My reply to (Ithink that was the number) just disappeared in mid-writing along with their advice I was responding to! Anyone know how this could happen?

Lonewarrior - you are a kind man & I appreciate that greatly. You know what tho? You beat yourself up too much. As a NT spouse I've not been angry at my spouse or eldest daughter exactly - not since their diagnosis 7-8 years ago anyway - & am every day ready & willing to forgive & start over. I just hope for some effort on their parts & don't see it. Too - I don't quite understand the reference to Asperger's as opposed to High Functioning or any other differentiation. Here in Canada it's identified as Autism Spectrum Disorder only - no more distinctions - & after years of both teaching & living w/those on the spectrum I believe there's truth in the saying - if you've met one person on the spectrum, you've met one person on the spectrum. Give yourself a break - clearly I'm not the easiest person to live with or my ASD spouse would find it more acceptable to trust my words than he does. Your insight does you credit & I've no doubt that goes a looonnnggg way with your wife. Especially if you write to her as kindly as you have here.

So, let me focus my question & seek your help. My hubby of 25 yrs is 62, diagnosed 8 years ago, then a 2nd time 3 years ago. I am 52. While he says he "accepts" his diagnosis & has skimmed a very few of the resources I've provided, his behaviour says otherwise. I believe him to be a man in a great deal of pain & anxiety most of the time, unable to identify or experience emotion at all. He will not participate in anything that would help him identify, name & allow to leak out any frank emotion - he's highly passive-aggressive rather than violent, I believe as a result of that involuntary repression. I think he experiences a great deal of compassion at some level but it causes him nothing but extreme pain & there's zero expression of it. The knowledge that he himself causes a great deal of pain, is I think, even worse for him, so when I try to effect change - saying for example, "when you do not respond to me verbally, my feelings are hurt & it causes me frustration." - I think this knowledge hurts him, causes him to retreat further & often engage in further hurtful behaviour as a kind of "cover up" - usually implying or saying something along the lines of - you don't feel hurt, no reasonable person would be hurt, you're an idiot if you're hurt. I don't think he's trying to be as mean as that sounds - he IS a good man - but it is a defense mechanism he uses liberally. I have to get around it somehow. I think he's fully cognizant of how his behaviour hurts others & it hurts him so much he just shuts down &/or speaks defensively.

What do you think? Might there be a way to get past his pain & shut down, to persuade him we're actually on the same side? Is there a better way to be specific about what exact behaviour I'm asking him to modify without triggering him?

So the next question is more pragmatic & really more important now. We're in a bad place right now between my deteriorating health & some dreadful decisions hubby made - not intentionally but with catastrophic consequences. Lack of insight paired with being taken advantage of by the unscrupulous & his 100% inability to share any info. After years of doing all the care taking, I need hubby to take on some tasks I can no longer manage in order to save our family. I've tried giving him lists - which he loses, describing the consequences of inaction, giving one task daily & reminding him - but am getting no where. I'm sensitive to wanting to accord him the dignity he deserves but these things are urgent & if not done will damage all of us significantly. Do I have to reduce this to "I'm the boss & you're the stubborn employee" or might there be other ways? How does one move an individual mired so deeply in tunnel vision & inertia? Is it possible do you think? A thought process at work that another person on the spectrum might recognize but I cannot?

I suspect some of what seems like stubbornness has grown out of his family - completely estranged - as well. It's clear the ASD is multi-generational - his grandfather & mother were very obviously on the spectrum, his brother, his wife & their children are. His uncles, aunts, their spouses & their children are too. Hubby's generation & their offspring have chosen formal diagnosis & the culture is grim. There are very few NTs sprinkled in there & hubby is estranged largely because a) he married a NT & b) unlike virtually every other ASD relative, he's a very quiet artist w/out a business or self-preservation bone in his body. Despite deploring his families behaviours, which amount to cruelty even to him, he still has this long-held, knee jerk belief that autism is correct & superior whilst NTs are "off". He doesn't think about it, but growing up in a nearly entirely ASD family - successful if not kind - I suspect it's a deeply held belief.

So, even if nobody has answers, have I described the difficulties clearly? Does any of it sound familiar to anybody else? 

And yes, my 19 yr old is also on the spectrum, but higher functioning than her dad & with some coping skills for her anxiety & expression. She's in university - home for the holidays just now. Our youngest, 17 yr old  daughter is not ASD, but was born w/a rare brain disorder that amongst other things means she's developmentally about 4 yrs old.

Thanks so much Lonewarrior. You really have made me feel some better with your encouragement & openness about your journey. Hugs right back & greetings to your wife who surely recognizes your efforts to honour her. :-)

Hello TenaceouseT thank you for directing me here after I read your extremely kind words and suggestions to a mother struggling to cope with two young boys,one who has autism.Thank you for helping her.

Being only recently aware (six months)of such a thing as autism I am self diagnosed myself, first I thought ASD then after talking to many in here the penny suddenly dropped and I realised I was Aspergers, I didn’t like that! I had only seen a small amount about Aspergers man,

I got angry ,I was very down,,, I researched it all, I kept seeing horrible things said about this man. It took people in here to show me that not all Aspergers men are all the same, not two people on here are exactly the same, we are all a mixture of many variables, our upbringing can effect us all. Our schooling, our long term relationships etc.

One thing that was apparent to me was that I  had huge feelings of empathy.

something aspie man is reported to not have much awareness of.

Finding out his traits made me stop and think about my own relationship,

my wife is NT like you. I realised how much she has to do to accomadate my ways, I felt so angry with myself. I could suddenly see all the times she coped with our two daughters acting as a go between when I was having a tissie or not getting my own way. 

I honestly never realised I was like that! I swear I never actually stopped to think just how hard I could be to just keep happy.

I had specific needs or wants, simple things like having my own cutlery, my own oval plate,getting stroppy if my stuff/clutter had been tidied and sorted. My impatience if having to walk endlessly around shops. Moaning about just about everything.

Damned hard work when everything was cobbled together. Our girls weren’t on the spectrum but my oldest was diagnosed with dyslexia when joining college, my wife did most of the hard work helping her achieve more than expected of her abilities, I did help as I have certain dyslexic traits, but my wife has worked so hard.

so i now have an understanding of my ways, I could see my bad points, As such I stop and think more now, I take into consideration what effect it will have  on her, I learnt by seeing my bad points.

I take it both your daughter and husband are both formerly Diagnosed with ASD?

Do either of them understand how difficult it is For You? It seems not, your husband needs a wake up call, he isn’t deliberately being uncaring,,,but he must somehow be made aware of your needs. He and your daughter need to understand just how much you do for them,,often without any thanks or praise.

Would they entertain reading up on how people such as you are effected?

we do enjoy researching things! Maybe ask them what they think about researching the subject of NT living with ND?

If you can find a way of shifting their focus towards research which will lead to evidence regarding the social interaction between ND and ND or NT and NT. then follow up with adding ND to NT  it would be relevant.

Basically lead them to a place they can discover how they impact so much on your ability to keep going.

So I can only suggest that he needs to understand you can not keep going without some let up. He has to accept that not everything in the world revolves around him. 

He has to see and understand as I do, it was a shock when I sat back and thought about it, I don’t like what I found, A grown man acting like a spoilt child.

I am trying to make amends and take a lot more responsibility for my actions.

Take care and sorry I haven’t any magic wand, and please accept an aspie hug() from an Aspergers man who saw the error of his ways,