A little disclaimer here. This is how I think, I’m not trying to tell anybody else how to think, the government or the powers that be do a good enough job of that, these are simply my humble thoughts. If you don’t think like me, great, like Temple Grandin once said, the world needs all kinds of minds, and I agree wholeheartedly. So I’m not trying to tell anybody what to think and I’m not trying to say that I’m right and others who think differently to me are wrong, I don’t even recognise right or wrong in this sense. All our thoughts, are right for each one of us no matter how different they are from somebody else’s. They’re all right, equal and they’re all vital to each of us. Nobody can tell anybody that they’re wrong. I’ve had 50 years of people trying to tell me that I was wrong, and they never succeeded.
Thoughts are like soldiers. The soldiers in the First World War were vulnerable and open to be taken out at any given moment when they were above the trenches, out in the open. My great grandad used to say that often when the men went out from the trenches, they were so cold, tired and hungry, that they almost welcomed death, they had lost the will to live let alone fight, at this stage.
However, when they were in the trenches, they felt a level of protection. They were hard to defeat. They would hunker down and were almost invisible to the enemy line and the longer they hunkered down, the harder they came to be removed.
If we deal with our thoughts when they appear, out in the open, vulnerable and fresh, we have the opportunity to take out any offending thoughts as they arise. However, when they hanker down and get deeply entrenched in our deeper mind, they become invisible to the conscious mind and are therefore harder to root out. However, although the deeper thoughts are now invisible, they are no less dangerous. In fact, like the soldiers in the trenches, they are more dangerous.
When I was younger, I used to be obsessed about getting to the bottom of these thoughts. Without realising it, all I was actually doing was burying them deeper and establishing them firmly in my mindset so that they eventually became beliefs on which I based the whole of my life. So after a while, I was seeing the world through the lens of these disturbing, unhelpful and even harmful thoughts. They coloured my world view and they became my world view and I couldn’t understand me or the world around me.
It’s taken me many more years to uncover and root out the destructive thoughts that held me captive and I now deal with the new thoughts when they arise, while they’re still fresh and at their most vulnerable. I no longer allow these thoughts to rule my life. I have reclaimed my own values and world view and no longer accept those of others.
For example, our society is based on the premise that money holds more value than human life. From this premise, it is easy to see the justification for wars and killing people. After all, the taking of a human life is not important compared to what is really important in life, money, and wars are always about power and control, i.e. getting more money. I never bought into this belief. I know many people, the majority of people in this society in fact, value money over human life and they are therefore quite justified for killing a man for his money. I never saw what others saw in money and I still don’t, but I don’t condemn a man for his love of money, to him, money is everything, as my understanding of what god is to me. I understand now why people love making money, how they love hoarding it, going to any lengths to get it and not caring who they hurt along the way. Why would they? ~ care about human lives that is. Human lives have little more importance than the dirt beneath their shoes (which is highly valuable (to me), but has no value to them as dirt probably costs less than a human life, which is already way down low in terms of what’s valuable and important in life), so what harm is it to take out a few people, or more, now and again, for whatever reason, it doesn’t even have to be about money. The human life is way down low, below most things in life but always below money. I see so many people clearly demonstrate their values in their everyday lives. They do jobs they hate, that make them miserable, that make them miserable to be around and they do jobs that reduce their health. Yet it’s ok, because they have their eye on the prize. The pay packet at the end of the month. They get their elixir. And I understand that now. Of course they don’t mind being miserable and unhappy because they’ve got the very thing they live for. I’m no different to them. I would go to any lengths to protect my integrity and would go to any lengths to help another human being. I have. And I have gotten into a whole lot of trouble for this. So now, it’s not that I would give any less of my life for another, but that I am learning to work smarter. And it’s easier now I understand that others really are just like me. They love their god just as much as I love mine and we would both go to any lengths to get and protect our gods. We are just the same, we just have different goals or values.
I was getting so entrenched with all these thoughts about money (that I still don’t understand but I do now accept that it is god for the majority of people and that is as perfect for them as my idea of god is for me) and the thoughts of wars and killings, that the very thoughts I was considering, we’re killing me from the inside enemy line, I just couldn’t see it. But I’ve cleared the decks now, I’ve got everything straight. Some people, the majority of people, so I wouldn’t even be able to argue that they were wrong, even if I thought they were, which I don’t, love money. Money is their god and coming close to that, is all the things they can buy with their money, all this new food type stuff that isn’t always made with just food, but other things as well, all the chemicals and pharmaceuticals that make them feel better after eating all that stuff that they call food, all the cars and houses and clothes and make up that they buy, whatever they buy really. I’ve come to see that it seems that whatever money can buy is good although it then begins to get confusing because some of these things have more value than others. Lol! I stop right there. I have learned to no longer interrogate the hell out of everything and accept that there are some things in life that I will never understand so I just have to accept them. And it seems the majority of the world understands the rules to where these things stand in the area of importance, like they know the rules of social interaction. I don’t understand either and my freedom came from realising that I don’t have to understand. Autism taught me that. Getting my diagnosis was a total game changer for me. I no longer have to try and understand people because it seems to me that we’re all the same, we simply have different values. The majority of people value money and all it can buy and I value human life and all it can bring. Everything seems to be an industry these days. Religion has always been one and now the market is open for the industry of spirituality. It all evolves around god, aka money. Everything makes so much sense to me now. I feel so much safer in the world. I don’t feel like I have to ‘get my point’ across anymore, to defend myself. And this love of money isn’t just at the heart of nt’s, it’s also at the heart of many nd’s and I could never make my autistic brother’s and sisters wrong, lol, even if at first I thought they were.
I think I’ve found my peace. We are all the same, we just hold different values or we hold different things to be of value to us and that is just beautiful. Before I got my diagnosis, I thought everybody thought the same as me. I only got my diagnosis in late October last year, and already the world has become much clearer to me. I was operating under the impression that everybody thought like me so I couldn’t understand why people would say the things they did. I understand them now and I apologies to everyone I’ve ever spoken to. I can see I must have looked like a total mad woman. But can you imagine, I thought people valued life over everything else, when they didn’t, they valued money. So I thought they were just being mean to me and trying to wind me up by saying things that clearly went against this value. Such as talking about the justifications for war etc. My poor brother in law. I had him pitched as the ultimate winder upper. I thought he was intentionally out to wind me up. I could never understand why people wanted to do that. What they got out of it. I felt persecuted, like the black sheep, the one everyone wanted to pick on and make fun of. But I see now that neither he nor any of the others were trying to get at me. They were speaking honestly, from their own values, which were not like mine so of course there would be confusion. I guess because nobody else thought like me I was also fighting with the possibility that I could be wrong, that of course money is more valuable than human life. How could I be so dumb! What I’ve realised is that nobody is wrong and nobody is right and we don’t have to fall out now, because I understand you. By understanding my autism and realising that not everybody thinks like me, I can see where our point of contention came in.
Phew! Glad I sorted that one out. I’m starting to feel that gentle compassionate and tender love for people, in a way that I witnessed when I was in Australia. WoW, this is pretty big. S**t, I think I’m gonna have a melt down. I think I need to take a moment. It’s ok , I’ve got this. This is not a meltdown, this relates to what I was saying in the beginning about our thoughts being like soldiers. My immediate thought pattern then, in less than a second probably. Was, OMG you’re going to be good with people now, that means you’re going to have to spend more time with them, you won’t have any excuse now. But I caught it. It’s not true. Just because I’m going to get along better with people from now on, it doesn’t mean I have to spend more time with them, it’s my autism that makes me not be comfortable being around too many people too often. It just means that when I am around people, I will get on with them a lot better. I will filter everything they say through the filter of money is god, and then, I’ll be able to understand them a whole lot more and I won’t just think they’re trying to wind me up! I feel like that person who’s suddenly horrified to realise that they’re the last person to realise they have this thing! Only I’m not horrified. I feel at peace. Maybe I’ll never speak at all, ever again (typical aspie mind, black and white). But seriously, what’s the point? I don’t mean that in a negative light, on the contrary, I’m quite delighted at the prospect. I have loved the occasions I have gone mute, but I’ve never been able to bring that on with conscious effort. I once taped my mouth up at work, but got told off for it and got told to take the tape off as it made other people uncomfortable and they didn’t think I could do my job properly if I didn’t participate in their endless complaints and trivia. They even thought I might not answer the phone to clients or that I was never going to talk to a client again. The clients weren’t the problem (mental health team), it was the staff. But they wouldn’t stop talking to me with all this atrocious nonsense, so I stopped talking. But it didn’t work. I managed only about half a day of luxury before they made me take off my home made mask. Humans are benefits driven creatures. What is the point of talking to somebody who doesn’t speak your language? The only benefit could be if the other person has something you want. Then it might be worth the effort to try to establish some level of understanding and communication between you both so you get what you want. You don’t have to speak the same language for that. I’ve been in places where nobody speaks my language (English) and I still got what I wanted. You could speak to another to learn more about their world but to be honest, I’m over that. I know the world that is ruled by money, in as much as I want to and my world is so far removed from most peoples that they wouldn’t even begin to imagine that they might want to know anything about mine, they don’t even think it exists, so they’re not going to want to know about a world that doesn’t exist! Lol! I understand that now.
Maybe I’ll just be the mad tree lady, who lives in the forest, talking only to the trees and birds, nature and the wild life and my dog and cat of course. I think Chris Packham got it right. Live in a forest, hunker in, like the soldiers, and you’ll be safe.
I have been but one glaring omission in most studies, such as Neuroception or Polyvagal Theory, is that they assume neurotypical responses / affects / interpretations and these are then simply extrapolated to explain a neurodiverse perspective. I don't think that works.
I'd like to understand the processes behind my thoughts and the feelings and responses, not the neurotypical processes. I don't see any value in me learning those.
Endymion said:I have been but one glaring omission in most studies, such as Neuroception or Polyvagal Theory, is that they assume neurotypical responses / affects / interpretations and these are then simply extrapolated to explain a neurodiverse perspective. I don't think that works.
In Neuroceptive or Polyvagal terms, as involves people's biological tendencies to react to internal and external threats or stimulus ~ by way of physiological drives and psychological compulsions to freeze, flight or fight ~ this research is very relevant for understanding both neurologically typical, atypical and divergent mindsets.
Simply though using a neurotypical framework or model alone to comprehend neurodiverse mindsets ~ is like attempting to translate Hebrew or Greek into English; whilst not in the first place understanding Hebrew or Greek in either of the spoken or the written forms.
Endymion said:I'd like to understand the processes behind my thoughts and the feelings and responses, not the neurotypical processes. I don't see any value in me learning those.
Well the only difference been neurologically typical, atypical and divergent personality or personae types ~ is being more or less the same, characteristically or behaviourally, to lesser or greater extents or degrees along a spectrum of many spectrums ~ and not just one.
A simple analogy of human similarity is that autistic meltdowns or shut-downs can occur on a monthly, weekly or daily or even an hourly basis, whereas the neurologically typical or atypical versions can occur on a monthly, yearly or multiple of years or even decades basis.
The biggest problem though in psychoanalytical terms for neurologically atypical and divergent people ~ regarding personal, familial and social problems ~ is when Societal Normalisation Therapy (or S.N.T.) is attempted more proportionally for societal productivity, rather than so much Personal Individuation Therapy (or P.I.T.).
Wanting to understand the processes behind 'your' thoughts, feelings and actions requires obviously more P.I.T. work, which involves coming to a personal understanding and comprehension of our individual consciousness ~ as in principle vitalises our collective experiential selves and generates our developing awarenesses of which internally and externally ~ in environmental terms receptively, protectively and projectively.
Being too protective and projective for instance stops us from being receptive enough to our surroundings ~ whether that be psychically, mentally or physically; just as being too receptive and protective either way can stop us from being adequately projective ~ meaning that we are not then as able to make reasonable plans or befitting suggestions and all that, which I may have exemplified too much here perhaps ;-) ?
Making total sense Endymion and you word things much better than me. When I’m working with somebody, I always meet them where they’re at, always. Yes, I live on a different plain to most people but a big part of that has come through years and years of relentless and diligent hard work. For example, before I could live with absolute ease, I spent the best part of one year asking myself hundreds of times a day, is there is ease in what I’m doing now, and when there wasn’t, I would simply stop what I was doing and address it until eventually, I now notice, more or less instantly, if I am not at ease, I no longer have to repeatedly ask myself that question. And when I was doing that work, I was working in a mental health team working with people who had severe and enduring mental health problems and I still got excellent results with my clients, it didn’t interfere with my work, in fact it enhanced it.
I work with people with all sorts of practical problems, from health, wealth (or financial poverty), anything and everything really. Although my work always has a metaphysical basis, I work at a very practical level as well. I have a massive tool kit which I use with myself and my clients and they’re all very practical and they are different, to suit different people or needs, but they all bring the person back to the same place of peace, happiness, ease and joy.
So yeah, you make total sense and when I’m working with somebody I always meet them where they are. If I’m just having conversations, like on here, and a person wanted to get something from what I have said, if they tell me what their understanding is, I will always meet it. There is no hierarchy in our levels of awareness and understanding, all levels are equal, equally valid and they all have their individual merits but no one is better or higher or lower than another. It’s just where we’re at and if you can accept where you’re at, life is always perfect. I guess a lot of what I teach is acceptance of what is. Whatever your situation, wherever you are in life, it’s where you’re supposed to be so it’s always perfect and if you can accept where you’re at, then you can do things to change it, if that’s what you want. There isn’t a person on earth who can’t be helped, if they genuinely want help, no matter how long it takes to get that help. I would never talk like I do in my everyday life to a client or somebody who comes to me for some help, that wouldn’t help them, not in the least, but on here I’m just chatting, I don’t know where everybody else is at but if they want to engage with me, and they tell me where they’re at, I’ll meet them.
Hi Martian Tom,
I am devastated to hear that as I would have dearly loved to read what you wrote and learn your thoughts, opinions and experiences about this.
I realise it is indeed of no help or comfort whatsoever to gently offer that, when I am writing a large reply to someone, I tend to now write it in Word first (and then copy and paste it,) to avoid it being lost as I have had that exact same frustration happen to me many a time too.
Perhaps you may feel inclined to try again later, if the passion takes you there again. I do hope it does.
Now we’re getting somewhere deep thought. Yes, I recognise and acknowledge all the types of poverty that you mentioned, including financial poverty, but to just say ‘poverty’ to me, it means nothing. When you qualify it with something else, such as financial poverty, then we’re getting somewhere. When you are clear about the situation then you will be met with a clear response and each of these situations can be met with the relevant response.
As for me. I most certainly come under the heading of financial poverty and many people in a similar financial situation to me think they are poor. And I’ve seen what happens in the lives of such people. They don’t eat out, they limit themselves in lots of ways because they say, I can’t do that I’m poor. Because I don’t see myself that way, and I’m not deluding myself, and I’ll show you why I’m not, but because I don’t see myself like that, I don’t limit myself. I still go out to eat and do all the things I want to do. How, you might ask if you’re poor. Well here’s a couple of examples.
Last week, just as my autism group was finishing, I realised I was hungry and that I wanted to eat something. I had very little to no food at home and in any case, I didn’t want to cook, I was too tired, just leaving my house, even for something as enjoyable as my autism group, wears me out, at present. So I decided I would eat out. Would a poor person decide to do that?
So I said to my friend, as we left the group, that I was going to go for something to eat. She said would you mind if I come with you, I’d love to go for something to eat. I said sure, that would be lovely, have you got anywhere in mind. She said yes, there’s a lovely place she goes to with her son and she would love to treat me to my dinner there. She said she is grateful that I go out of my way every week to pick her up and take her to the group and this week she got a little extra money and she would love to treat me as a way of saying thank you. She said I know you don’t ask for anything or that you wouldn’t take any money from me for all the lifts you give me but that she would be grateful if I allowed her to do this for me. I didn’t know she had some extra money, there was no way I could know that and I wouldn’t know she could spare the money to buy me or even her something to eat, even if I knew she had the extra money, but she did. I had no idea how I would get to eat out when I made that decision, I just knew I would, and as always, my ‘knowing’ didn’t let me down. She enjoyed going out so much that she asked me if we could do this every week and for her to pay, she said I would be doing her a huge favour as she gets so much out of it (she’s normally at home alone or with her autistic son, she’s autistic and finds it difficult to initiate such outings) and she said it would make her feel so much better if she could do something for me as well as I have to go quite far out of my way (according to her, she’s working on physical distances, I’m not) to pick her up, take her to the group then take her home again each week. So now I have a meal at least one day a week. I didn’t know that was going to happen but I knew I would eat out that day, I just didn’t know how and I never in a million years expected it to come the way it did, I didn’t think this girl even liked eating out that much and I know she thinks she lives in relative poverty and is very careful and absolutely amazing in fact, at managing her money so I would never of imagined that she would offer me such a generous gift.
My son gave me £30 the other night when he called round, I was going to buy some food with it but the next day his girlfriend called to say the kids school was closed due to the weather and could I look after the kids, which I happily agreed to. After talking to the kids about what we would do for the day we decided we would do something lovely for their Mum and stepdad (my son). So we went shopping, we spent most of the money on the ingredients to make them a huge beef stew and dumplings in their slow cooker and some dessert. I got them lots of ready cut fresh fruit and although I made meat in the stew (I’m vegan) I put less meat and added healthy beans and they loved it. The girl made the bedroom all lovely, she made their bed and hoovered and made a heart with sweets on the bed and put wine glasses and a bottle of wine in there. Me and the boy cleaned the kitchen and the living room. The rest of the money we spent on treating ourselves to huge hot chocolates and marshmallows and flakes for the kids and coffee for me. We had a great day and my son and girlfriend were so happy to come home from work to a hot meal and a clean house. The daughter went to stay at her dads so I said the boy could have a sleep over with me so the parents could go out and watch football at the pub. I left so they could have their tea etc and they dropped the boy off with me on their way out. If I thought I was ‘poor’, I would have spent that money on me for food as I would think I needed it. Instead, I had nothing to eat that day, I was exhausted because I had worked so physically hard, fortunately I had pain killers to take the pain away but I was blissfully happy. The kids were happy, they had previously been falling out, that’s why I suggested we do something nice for somebody else because even though I had told them they could do anything they wanted that day, we were going to buy sledges and go sledging, they were still being mean to each other. So they were happy, my son and girlfriend was and so was I. I suppose it meant I had no money again but to me, that didn’t even enter my head. I had lost nothing and gained a whole lot more. My son and girlfriend came home and because they weren’t stressed about who’s making tea or tidying up etc, I had a lovely pleasant, relatively normal (for me) chat with my daughter in law and I went home with my heart bursting with love, and prepared myself for round two, the little boy, my grandson coming to sleep for the first time. No amount of money could equal that. Even without a penny in my pocket, I don’t consider myself poor. When I was living on the streets I turned people down for their offers of a bed etc because I wasn’t in a fit state mentally, to accept their offers, I would have somehow upset them and because I wouldn’t know how not to because I didn’t understand when I did, I thanked them generously from my heart but declined their offer. Sometimes I’d let them feed me or let me take a shower or get some clean clothes from them and I wouldn’t walk the streets all night thinking poor me, I’m so poor, I would walk the streets at night giving heartfelt thanks for the wonderful, kind and generous people that I meet and for how lucky I am that I have legs and can use them to walk the streets because I felt safer doing that than sleeping in doorways or even in the night shelters, if you could get a bed there, so I wasn’t thinking of how poor I was but how fortunate I was to have legs and to live amongst such wonderfully kind and non judgemental people. They could have seen me as a poor dirty person, worthless with no value in society because I wasn’t working, but no, they saw that I was simply having a hard time and they wanted to help me and that was enough love kindness and generosity to keep me from ever thinking I was poor. I’m not good, practically with money, when I’m working I bring home, with ease, well in advance of £1000 a week after tax etc. That is very little compared to my friends who are millionaires and one who is on his way to being a billionaire and it’s quite a lot to my homeless out of work or prostitute friends and to me, it is what it is, it’s either £1000 or less or more or whatever it is, it has little value to me. If I had just got paid and you said I need £1000 I would just give it to you with no thought about the coming week. I used to drive my son crazy with this when he was younger. He would say no, we can’t afford a pizza, I would say look, we can, and I would produce the £10 and he would look at me in despair. He would say what about the rest of the week, which I thought was a totally random thing to say when we’re about to decide what pizza to get and then he would explain that we needed to buy enough food to last the week. So like a sulking teenager, I’d relent and we’d go and buy vegetables and beans and make some hearty soups and bread. But even with all his help while he was growing up, I still haven’t learned to place the same value on money that many others do so o guess that’s why I struggle to see myself as ‘poor’ but of course I see others struggling to manage on little money and I help people out when and where I can, I wouldn’t say to them oh your not poor, pull yourself together, it’s all in your mind, it’s your faulty thinking system. Instead I go find hot food and buy it for them, I ask them if there’s anything else I can do and they will never take money from me. The other night when I was walking in the snow I decided that if the homeless guy I usually buy food for is on the street in his usual spot, I would offer him my bed for the night or for however long the cold spell lasts. If he took everything I had, it would only be physical things and I would still be happy that I was able to provide him with a bed and seemingly some extras. Starting again with physical things like furniture etc is what I do regularly as I move around the country/world or just because I’ve given stuff away. My needs are always met but then I have simple needs.
Thanks, AngelDust. I'm a little recovered now. Closest to a meltdown for a long time. I'll post something later
Oh, I also use my approach (obviously because it’s the only one I have! Lol) with my social work clients which is working at a very practical level indeed, with things such as bereavement, poverty, mental health problems, family issues etc, we get the whole lot in social work, when others can’t deal with the issue they send them to us, even the police send people our way. It’s almost like putting a plaster on things but even within that framework, I still find ways to help my clients make the progress they want or achieve whatever it is they want to achieve. I use the same law that the local authorities get us to use to limit peoples access to services, to guarantee services. I understand the law and I write it in my assessments so it’s impossible for my managers to refuse what we’re asking for. I always get my clients what they want and I also somehow always please my bosses as well which is evident because they are happy to pay me more money than they pay anybody else, just to work for them when they could get somebody much cheaper. But I think it balances out, because in some situations I won’t give any services where others might, if I think the person wouldn’t benefit from them. Just because somebody meets a tick box assessment criteria, doesn’t mean they need that service. If you do a thorough assessment, involving the person all the way and meeting their needs as definite by them, they sometimes don’t need services, you can help them in other ways. Colleagues and managers don’t know how I do it and it’s took me years to work out what it is that I do actually do differently, but I’m happy to have worked it out. I was happy anyway but after many comments I was curious to know what I did differently too. I knew I got different results, I just didn’t know how or why!
p.s. when I said I’d never felt such tender love for others before, that doesn’t mean I didn’t before love everybody, on the contrary, I don’t actually know how not to love someone. Even when somebody has done what we would all consider a terrible thing, I still can’t stop loving someone, I don’t know how to. I’ve worked with peadophiles and murderers and I don’t love them any less than I love my son. The feelings I was getting was more of a human kind of love which is more tender and it somehow feels kinder but it doesn’t actually make me love people more than I do or mean that I loved them any less before I had that feeling. I love all people equally, I always have and always will. I know Martian Tom that you think I should be open minded about this and that I should learn to love some people more than others and not love some, that I’m wrong to love all people, I understand that and I promise you I’ve tried but each time I did, I ended up suicidal and in a bad way mentally. How do you teach yourself to not love somebody, to love only particular people and to love money more? And to be honest, I no longer want to try, that’s why I said after 50 years they didn’t succeed in teaching me this lesson and I no longer wish to try. I don’t think I’m right and your wrong, but trying to love some people and not others, just doesn’t work for me, I don’t think that makes me wrong but if it does, so be it, I’m a wrong loving person.
BlueRay said:I’ve got Carl Jung’s biography, which is really interesting, but I haven’t finished it yet.
Might that be the 'Memories, Dreams, Reflections' one ~ perhaps?