Autism vs You Think You Are On The spectrum

Hello Quirkyfriend good to hear from you. You have had quite a day but Your evening sounds cosy. Good luck with getting the job. 

It's Thursday evening here and we've just had fish fingers and hash browns for tea and I'm snuggled in bed with a cat. 

SOs first week in a job after being unemployed for 3 years...no wonder we are tired, but on top of that our city is on a "boil notice" because of contamination of our water supply...so lots of little frustrations about disrupted routines.

Had a job interview today as an internal candidate. I'm figuring I scored 80%. So it's down to whether any other candidates score more. I'm tired though...more than I expected.

QuirkyFriend said:

Labels are only a problem if they are an excuse

I don't have the assessment passport and would like to feel that I do not use my self diagnosis as an excuse but I certainly agree that diagnosis is a good framework to develop strategies going forward.

good to hear from you Quirky!

I've got mixed views on the benefits of NOT labelling. 

SD16 was diagnosed in May this year but her Dad expressed concerns about ASD traits from when she was 6. Unfortunately through a mix of being devalued as a parent (despite 20 years experience as a MH researcher) and being in a culture which has swung towards "no labels", we've had a massive battle involving the family court to get SD16 assessed even though she requested it after identifying with ND traits at age 13.

What benefit does her label give? Educationally nothing more than her dyslexia diagnosis. It would get her some healthcare access of her mother would help her access it. Within the benefits system here disability payment is targeted e.g. we got SD20 funds to see a therapist, but if she stops or therapy comes to an end she loses that money. Getting permanent funding is rarer than hens teeth.

Thing is, this kid has  struggled with being different and had we got the diagnosis earlier I think the family court would have been a lot less tolerant of the games played by her mother  over education and healthcare...so early diagnosis would have given the family court a better understanding of this child rather than the assumptions that she was just an NT kid.

The downside of this diagnosis is her mother is starting to use it as an excuse for a range of things that could be dealt with if she bothered parenting...or encouraged. 

I come from a family that uses diagnosis as a framework for adaptions rather than an excuse. Only family I know which has a quiet room on Christmas Day for any kid or adult at risk of a meltdown.

Labels are only a problem if they are an excuse

The articles offered personal opinions/ perspectives relevant to this thread. one from a father who has x3 autistic daughters (written 2012, why should that matter?) and the other was a guy with autism.

They are valid because are personal opinions. These aren't medical articles in The Lancet!

Malicious? When, where? A bully? ...

Instead I am tolerating coming under attack though for raising this topic.

Self diagnosing carries well known risks. Diagnosis can too. 

Personally for me I'd have preferred sticking with psychoanalytical psychotherapy because the approach looks at the whole person, it's integrated and avoids labels.

Whereas an ASD diagnosis can leave you feeling high and dry because there's limited support resources to access. So I'm going to go back to the therapy route just described.

Forums like this one can be very helpful but are not a substitute for expert, professional help either. 

This last response and many others make no logical sense and indicate that you haven't actually read anything that people have been posting.  You are saying that only "professionals" can give us a valid diagnosis while citing blog posts from inapproproately experienced mothers to undermine our thoughts and feelings.  The post is also five years out of date and thinking has moved on.  I have several books by recognised 'experts' that state clearly that the individual is the expert on themselves.  I belive that a coping adult with ASD is more than capable of recognising it in themselves when they hit a psychological wall and can find no other expalanation that makes sense of their lives.

You say you haven't been rude, but you claim to see aggression in other people's responses.  At this point I am not sure I can recognise ASD in you (and you say it's a label you don't like or want but you went looking for it), you have been malicious and your posts got locked becuse you were abusive but you are in denial over that.

Unless you can be supportive of a forum that is inclusive of the self diagnosed, the officially diagnosed and the curious, I suggest you go elsewhere and stop pickiing on people whose lives are already in or close to crisis.

If you genuinely need support stop attacking and underminng and be open to help. Don't keep behaving like a bully.

Thank you. I can see that there are some people who care and are great thinkers, it's just quite difficult being lost in a world where I'm looking for guidance and see posts about wannbee ASD etc. I don't want to be in the wrong place, annoying those who are in the right place.

It is not a hostile environment...it is a very open and caring one......there are some lovely souls here ..

I have only just tonight made a post requesting help as I know there's something 'different' about my ways of thinking and being, and for the last 20+ years the medical profession has been very unhelpful when I have approached them. I think for the most part they are actually clueless.

But I, too, am wary of self-diagnosis, albeit ASD seems to fit very well and I'm desperately looking for help with figuring out what is wrong so I'm here asking those who are experienced with it. If it's not ASD I'm happy for others to explain why I don't fit here at all, and tell me to look elsewhere. I have also considered CPTSD, for I have been through some very traumatic life experiences, largely because I believe I am gullible and have hooked up with the wrong men in life, one of whom nearly killed me by strangulation because I was too naive in the first place to see what a danger he really posed. Fortunately that was a long time ago, albeit I've had two emotionally traumatic  since then.

I personally just don't know, I'm the first to admit this, all I'm asking for is some help to figure out a problem. Reading the comments previous to yours I'm starting to think this is quite a hostile environment, which really saddens me.

Clearly this overall topic appears sensitive and has the capacity to create a defensive reaction from others.

Re: responses - there can be an aggressive tone. I've not been like that. 

It's very typical Lonewarrior for some one with ASD to not let a subject rest and to become the main point of interest, to the exclusion of other things. 

I read that you are at an assessment stage. This can take considerable time. 

JEP said:

I appreciated reading your post Misfit61. 

In some ways I might be feeling angry. Outside of this Forum I feel that i'm not supposed to speak on autism. More a case 'right you've got the diagnosis, we accept that, now let's move on'. This is my father's reaction at least.

I don't want my autism to become a huge feature either. Instead I'd like to find a way to have one informative discussion with my family - explain things to them, increase their awareness. Then we can move on!

In contrast, the subject is only about autism on the Forum. So for me it's going from one extreme to another.

Prior to my diagnosis I had psychoanalytical psychotherapy with a senior analyst who is also a psychiatrist. In some ways I wished that I had continued with this. No labels, no diagnosis's were made. I felt really heard and they got to know me well. I learnt about myself this way and gained valuable tools 

We did not discuss autism. Or - there was some recognition, but no more than that. 

I though then requested an ASD referral via the GP. And I regret doing so now. I didn't enjoy the assessment process at all. It felt linear, medical, quite narrow, selective. There wasn't an opportunity for them to get to know me. I almost felt as if I could influence the outcome through knowing so much about ASD. Apparently not I was told, but I'm still not sure

I'm not going to self diagnose again! It hasn't helped me really. But an analytical approach did -it was comprehensive.

But everyone is different, this is my personal experience only. 

JEP I understand where you are coming from.  Since my diagnosis, my family have not wanted to talk about the matter even though I have tried to approach the subject lightly.  Like you, I don't want it to dominate my life, but at the same time I would like to understand the matter with my family and move on.

I found the diagnosis process very traumatic and distressing and since having a diagnosis, although it has explained a lot, you are left high and dry with no support or guidance afterwards.  You could argue that yes you are the same person as you always have been and in some ways that is good to know, however, it is a lot to take in and process, or at least that is what I found.  Some support or guidance would have been nice as it would have helped in explaining to my partner and my boss at work, why I am the way I am sometimes and what can be done to minimise the downsides to having ASD.

I had extensive psychotherapy a number of years ago and found it very helpful.  There were no labels or judgement and the psychotherapist was brilliant and really helped me to understand who I was and where I was making quite obvious (at least to everyone else, but me!) mistakes in life.  This whole process improved my social skills and confidence.

I am glad I have a diagnosis as it at least confirms some things and puts my mind at rest over some problems I have failed to improve in myself - I will keep trying, but at least I know why I struggle!  Despite this the diagnosis process isn't straightforward and needs to be addressed in my opinion to help those who need a diagnosis, but to also put the help and support in place both during and following the assessments regardless of the outcome.

I've only looked at the first of those threads and all the comments. It is written by a NT mother of more severely impaired daughters. She has no authority or qualification to be passing judgement on the capacity of high functiong adults who are capable of self anaysis and and have average or above IQ to understand themseves.

And a big hug to you too!

Big hug! 

Well said and good for you Lonewarrior.

Hi Lonewarrior,

I personally find both articles to be well written and interesting. 

There is nothing radical about the way I am or in my approach to this topic. 

And I don't know how you reach conclusions that the person Grit who wrote one of the articles and me are not on the spectrum. 

) ( said:

I don't actually believe you are on the autistic spectrum,I have seen no proof therefore your points are not valid.

Having a diagnosis, a label hasn't actually been of much benefit to me. But I am aware this can be helpful for others and I thought it would be for me too, but unfortunately not. 

When you say you've seen no proof, what what were you looking for? 

JEP

Dear jep This jabberwocky individual has an opinion,just that an opinion.likes to use less than polite language and is "WHO" ?

the "I am not the same as you came across at the end as being very successful,despite being told he would never succeed,I would question his diagnosis as he comes across as very articulate and has a loud outspoken voice? All the very things he states autistic people don't have? He has basically revealed himself to be all the things self diagnosed people do.

I thought this post had been nicely ended? You however seem to be very radical in your belief that undiagnosed or self diagnosed should not have a place here. Did you not read the comments from those who self diagnosed and later,much later after forcing the system finally got the validation. I don't actually believe you are on the autistic spectrum,I have seen no proof therefore your points are not valid.

oh and by the way I had my assessment last month so if it's ok with you I will continue to stay here.i will let you know the outcome.

I wasn't planning on posting today but have found a couple of interesting articles re: self diagnosis. In case useful here's the links:

http://autismjabberwocky.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/whats-wrong-with-diagnosing-yourself.html

https://medium.com/@guy.t/you-and-i-are-not-the-same-autism-and-self-diagnosis-8bbc587f2e7d

JEP said:

But unfortunately I do still question self diagnosis for ASD and MH conditions. Doing so carries risks and may prevent someone getting the right type of professional help. 

One problem with that is that you also have to treat MH professionals' views for what they are i.e. mere opinions. The forum has many stories of first, second and third opinions that changed from one diagnostician to the next. There is no lab test like an XRay for ASD there can only ever be opinions.

Getting the right professional help is also a lottery. Just because you have a diagnosis does not mean that you will get the right help.

I self diagnosed before I got a "real" diagnosis. When I thought that I was affected I found that it explained an awful lot of stuff in my life. But beware, confirmation bias can kick in - particularly for those who are prone to black and white thinking! So, you have to treat self diagnosis with caution. The real diagnosis meant that I could stop worrying and doubting the underlying issue. But, someone who just has there own opinion may well be on the right track. Discussing our issues with people here may well develop people's insight and either confirm or deny someone's beliefs about themselves.

One of the big issues with autism is that the consequential issues (PTSD, depression, BPD etc) can throw up a cloud of symptoms that completely hide the underlying ASD. ASD is hard to diagnose, it is even harder when there are years of acquired behaviours that completely obscure the underlying causes. MH professionals are often no more able to unpick these layers than anyone else so it is quite possible for a person to believe that they have ASD whilst the professionals think something else. 

One thing that has struck me is that we have different views of what our own autism is. It is a hard thing to define. It is hard to know where the boundaries are between the autism and the consequential issues and the borders with what is just normal behaviour (whatever that is)

The forum is a place to share opinions and JEP has just done that. Opinions generate further opinions in other people. There is no need to take offence. JEP is not taking over the forum and has just offered a view which generated some discussion.