The Autism Deception.

longman said:

So if I understand you correctly you are saying we all get the same basic "dose" of autism as you, but you are saying you managed it better?  Are you saying we'd all lead a better life we follow your example?

That's not quite what I was trying to say. Someone on the spectrum (diagnosed or not) will have some dose (larger or smaller) of autism. We can all potentially manage it for better or worse, either on our own or with help from others. On top of this dose of autism we often have other issues. People often see those issues, when they meet someone with autism, rather than the autism itself which is actually pretty hard to spot. I think I may have a smaller dose but I might be mistaken as I can't really know what the world is like for other people.

Longman makes valid points about how an individual with autism may have comorbid conditions that add to someone's misery. It seems to me that in some cases these comorbid conditions are coincidences rather than consequences. In some cases there will be consequences (e.g. depression, anxiety, mania etc) of living with autism. In some cases there may be a root cause behind both ones autism and the other conditions, for example if someone has a fundamental brain development issue that results in multiple issues. There are also many cases where the other issues are misdiagnosed because of the difficulty in communicating through the fog of autism.

My point, however, was about the autism in isolation. I understand it to have an impact like visual impairment. Some people have some sight, others are completely blind but they are all considered as being visually impaired. My understanding is that we are variously impaired on an autistic spectrum.

One thing is clear to me. We are all different. The saying that "when you have met one person with autism, you have [just] met one person with autism" rings true to me. On that basis, I have no difficulty accepting that autism is a spectrum disorder.

ANother thought springs from this. If one is to successfully deal with ones situation I think it is useful to divide and conquer one's issues. It is not always easy to separate one's autism from the other comorbid conditions but I think that this is the best way of dealing with it. If one takes on the autism and works out how to cope with that then the other conditions (particularly the consequent issues like stress, anxiety and depression) will wither and fall away.

There are spectrums everywhere.

I would have liked school.  If it wasn't for the teachers and the other kids.

As for the difference between being autistic and eccentric.

An eccentric is someone who is financially independent.

An autistic is someone who needs money, but cannot find a job with a good wage because of their condition.

It is widely accepted that intelligence has a spectrum (measured by IQ) and nobody has a problem with that. The autistic spectrum is, to me, a similar concept that measures emotional/social intelligence/perceptive power. Some people are brilliant at it, most people are pretty average at it and if you are so bad at it, that you struggle to exist in society, then you need a diagnosis and access to whatever help you can get.

Like intelligence, autism is partly determined by genes but its development into a problem is significantly influenced by the home and school environment. If you go to a good school you can make the most of your inate intelligence but the development of social intelligence is much more hit and miss so a lot of people struggle with life until they are dumped into adulthood with even less support and guidance as time goes on.

A two child policy might work better; you need an average of 2.2 children per family to sustain the population levels.

Thanks for this interesting thread Mr Creature. I agree with much of what you say if not with the same depth of feeling you express. I too despair with the direction humanity seems to be going in today.

Greed (even disguised as aspiration) has become the norm it seems as all too evident in many areas of society.

Planet Earth cannot continue to provide the resources needed to sustain the greed of the human race so eventually she will fight back and punish us for misbehaving in that way.

I reccomend "The Revenge of Gaia" by prof James Lovelock (1996) for an excellent description of the facts around this discussion.

He advises "a managed retreat" rather than uncontrolled and unsustainable growth as the only solution if we are to avoid disaster. Sadly current populist opinion as demonstrated by the election of Trump and the Brexit vote shows no one is listening or are perhaps just ignorant of the facts. Indeed understanding about this has only come about in the last 20/30 years. Pollution and climate change are now very obvious.

As to whether Aspies or Neuros understand this better I am not sure either way but what I do know is most humans are too preoccupied with the minor details of their individual lives to see the bigger picture and so cannot see what needs to be done about it.

Stephen I agree the term benign dictatorship is ambiguous. I can see the merit of Meridiana's point however in that if we fail to understand the error of our ways we may have to be directed in the right direction even if that means some loss of freedom to do as we please.

Prof Lovelock concludes there are way too many humans on this planet and I agree with him, but how to correct that is very difficult to address especially by politicians.

The arguably benign dictatorship in China tried a one child policy to correct their booming population but have since rescinded that due to unforseen effects.

Not sure if any other method would work better. Hence my pessimism.

Take care, Laddie.

Is there such a thing as a benign dictatorship?

Sorry, Stephen, I was generalising a bit much there!  Getting ahead of myself and lazily assuming I'd be understood.  I was in a hurry at the time. 

I agree with you on the whole, but we must be careful not to assume that all aspies have partularly poor people skills.  One of the key traits of the grossly mis- and undiagnosed people who have the female presentation of AS/HFA is that we imitate neurotypical behaviour very well, and this improves over time.  As a child I was excruciatingly shy, and always saying the wrong things, but now, as long as they accept me, I can talk to all kinds of people and get on with them.  I still suffer from all the usual misunderstandings and sensitivities, not to mention anxiety and depression. 

And it's not merely confined to females. A minority of males on the spectrum can have these traits too, and many are known as polymath-geniuses - such as Newton and Einstein, Georgina Cavendish (Duchess of Devonshire), Simone Weil, and many more - all very likely to have been Aspies.  One from the list you linked would be Henry Thoreau.  These last three had no people problems and were politically active - although all were seen as 'eccentric'. Often the high intelligence distracts psychiatry from the underlying cause and difficulties. This type of autism is so neglected (thanks to out-dated criteria and thinking) that, unless we see an expert in this area, even the average autism specialist is prone to misdiagnose us, often with BPD - the shoddy catch-all diagnosis for women who don't quite fit in.  Most women diagnosed with BPD probably actually have 'female-type' AS. (This partly explains the skewed male:female AS diagnosis figures).

Giftedness, especially intellectual giftedness, depends on two key autistic traits - extreme conscientiousness and a wide 'associative horizon'.  It also requires very high intelligence - but if extremely high this becomes an impediment.  So what I'm saying is that the world could be far better run by highly intelligent and wise people who are gifted in this way.  Extreme empathy, a strong sense of in/justice, honesty and loyalty are included among their traits. How many of today's politicians show these qualities?

I'd sooner live under a benign dictatorship than under present-day democracy where leaders and governments are far from benign.

Meridiana said:

I've known loads of Aspies and I'm sure we'd do a much better job of running the world than any number of obscenely wealthy, narcissistic, sociopathic leaders could ever do.  Grrr!

Some of us have run countries or commanded armies, although they weren't IDed as Aspies as the syndrome was not identified until 1944.

This list may be useful.

Unfortunately, I doubt we'd do much better. Our people skill issues cause problems with getting others on side...

I agree completely, Mr Creature.

Stephen - the difference between the stages of diseases and theautism spectrum is that diseases progress from one stage to another - becoming more serious.  With autism we are all fixed at particular points on a spectrum (actually several parallel spectra).  We don't move along it.

Jessicaaaaa said:

I really do agree with you. I feel people treat austism and mental illness on a completely different level from physical illness or injury which makes me really mad. Just because our leg isnt nessecarily broken, doesnt mean we are happy happy happy or not suffering. I really wish there was more awareness to this. But it shows you how much of a mess our world is. I mean, Trump is the presisdent x

So true, Jeșșîcăâăâăâ, and I love that last bit!  It made me laugh - even though it should have made me weep over the stupidity of the human race.  Not only stupid - but dangerous.  I've known loads of Aspies and I'm sure we'd do a much better job of running the world than any number of obscenely wealthy, narcissistic, sociopathic leaders could ever do.  Grrr!

They aren't called 'spectrums' but cancer and diabetes do have them so to speak.

Cancer has varying types and also varying stages.

In addition, diabetes has varying levels of severity; sometimes it's manageable just by diet, others by daily injections.

I really do agree with you. I feel people treat austism and mental illness on a completely different level from physical illness or injury which makes me really mad. Just because our leg isnt nessecarily broken, doesnt mean we are happy happy happy or not suffering. I really wish there was more awareness to this. But it shows you how much of a mess our world is. I mean, Trump is the presisdent x