Good manners?

No disrespect to Pink68, as I think we've drifted off the thread somewhat, but in some ways it is relevant as context.

IntenseWorld, you've brought in another compromise - "oh if you achieved it must be down to privilege". So why again is it so incompatible for people on the spectrum to achieve?  This ought to worry parents who are being sold the idea that patient and enduring committment now will avoid all the problems later.  

In a way children diagnosed in the last twenty years, with better understanding and more infrastructure, could be described as privileged. Growing up in a middle class environment in an age before meaningful diagnosis maybe I was privileged. Didn't feel it - autism is disabling whatever your famiy circumstances.

I guess I was in privileged circumstances of some kind, but it served no advantage at school age because I was so severely bullied and damaged by it for decades beyond. So quite what odds privilege makes is beyond my comprehension. I went to University at 21 and things got progressively better.

Will privilege make any odds if you have set backs or a crisis? Doesn't look like it unless parents (if they aren't retired by then) or someone can pay privately.

As to a PhD opening doors - where did you get that idea? Unless you are going into academia or some professions in the sciences where it is essential, a PhD is "a millstone round your neck" because people seem to deduce that you are only interested in one very narrow subject area and you like working on your own rather than in a team.

Unfortunately that's exactly what a PhD is. What getting a PhD did for me is open my mind to my potential capacity to research, synthesise and apply information, which was "mind-blowing" for an aspie. So what I'd say to any parent looking for a way forward, academic training will benefit lifestyle.

Anyone who thinks it will open doors to jobs is under tragic delusion. I know many people who hide their PhDs, and in the early 90s depression, when I was out of work, DHSS told me I had to pretend I hadn't got one, and make up a story for the three years study, because they considered it an insurmountable barrier to getting back into work. Which it is.

I wish we could get out of this crevasse that makes out people on the spectrum cannot achieve. Otherwise what's the point of all the support infrastructure in schools, and parents hoping for a gladdening outcome when in reality most will be sadly disappointed?  If you get somewhere - oh you weren't correctly diagnosed, you were privileged..... Oh me, oh my....

The main problem to breaking this down is the autistic spectrum is very individual. The range and variety of disability is immense, so you cannot say "look at so and so - see what he has achieved" as an encouragement to a young poerson on the spectrum - its just irrelevant.

All the same I do earnestly beg that we look for some way of breaking down this hypothetical barrier about autism and achievement. It can have learning disability implications, but it is primarily about cognitive and sensory difficulty, that can be overcome in the right circumstances.

No disrespect to Pink68, as I think we've drifted off the thread somewhat, but in some ways it is relevant as context.

IntenseWorld, you've brought in another compromise - "oh if you achieved it must be down to privilege". So why again is it so incompatible for people on the spectrum to achieve?  This ought to worry parents who are being sold the idea that patient and enduring committment now will avoid all the problems later.  

In a way children diagnosed in the last twenty years, with better understanding and more infrastructure, could be described as privileged. Growing up in a middle class environment in an age before meaningful diagnosis maybe I was privileged. Didn't feel it - autism is disabling whatever your famiy circumstances.

I guess I was in privileged circumstances of some kind, but it served no advantage at school age because I was so severely bullied and damaged by it for decades beyond. So quite what odds privilege makes is beyond my comprehension. I went to University at 21 and things got progressively better.

Will privilege make any odds if you have set backs or a crisis? Doesn't look like it unless parents (if they aren't retired by then) or someone can pay privately.

As to a PhD opening doors - where did you get that idea? Unless you are going into academia or some professions in the sciences where it is essential, a PhD is "a millstone round your neck" because people seem to deduce that you are only interested in one very narrow subject area and you like working on your own rather than in a team.

Unfortunately that's exactly what a PhD is. What getting a PhD did for me is open my mind to my potential capacity to research, synthesise and apply information, which was "mind-blowing" for an aspie. So what I'd say to any parent looking for a way forward, academic training will benefit lifestyle.

Anyone who thinks it will open doors to jobs is under tragic delusion. I know many people who hide their PhDs, and in the early 90s depression, when I was out of work, DHSS told me I had to pretend I hadn't got one, and make up a story for the three years study, because they considered it an insurmountable barrier to getting back into work. Which it is.

I wish we could get out of this crevasse that makes out people on the spectrum cannot achieve. Otherwise what's the point of all the support infrastructure in schools, and parents hoping for a gladdening outcome when in reality most will be sadly disappointed?  If you get somewhere - oh you weren't correctly diagnosed, you were privileged..... Oh me, oh my....

The main problem to breaking this down is the autistic spectrum is very individual. The range and variety of disability is immense, so you cannot say "look at so and so - see what he has achieved" as an encouragement to a young poerson on the spectrum - its just irrelevant.

All the same I do earnestly beg that we look for some way of breaking down this hypothetical barrier about autism and achievement. It can have learning disability implications, but it is primarily about cognitive and sensory difficulty, that can be overcome in the right circumstances.