Organic Acid Test (OAT)

I don't class myself as all knowing but I've never heard of an OAT test though I've had a fair few of the other ones, I'm also not going to say people shouldn't do their own research online but personally I'm a great believer in getting your information directly from 'the' source and for me trusted and reliable sources for information abut the gut are Coeliac UK and Professor David Sanders, Professor Sanders has done some really interesting presentations which have been filmed and can now be found on YouTube. A friend of mine also recommends Guts UK but I'm less familiar with them. 

https://www.coeliac.org.uk/home/

https://www.profdavidsanders.co.uk

https://gutscharity.org.uk

Hi I had my sons OAT test done report says few bacterial markers elevated as you said GP doesn’t consider this test still hanging out there and thinking out where to go from there but probiotics are definitely helping him.

I too have suffered severe gut pain all my life, I never even realised it as not usual. I just thought everyone had stomach pain of some kind .

Someone once asked me how I was, I said my stomach was more painful than normal and was usually only quite mild in intensity, they enquired what I meant by my comment?

well it just hurts like everyone’s, I then found out it wasn’t at all usual to have constant pain of some kind. 

I consider myself lucky after reading about others, mine comes and goes. Never quite goes altogether.

 I do avoid certain foods that I know agrevate my guts.

 As a child I had many issues looking back, severe ear ache, difficulties going to the toilet, accidents, I was given laxatives, medications but the doctors would just say well we aren’t sure what’s causing his pan but he will grow out of it.

I have since found out a lot more about connections between autism and various health conditions, I consider myself extremely lucky as although I have many autistic traits or underlying sensitivity, None are so severe as to cause me great suffering.

 Cloudy mountain and NAS 39248 are I feel quite right about being cautious. If it was at all successful I would imagine the medical profession would use it. 

NAS51214 said:

Every nutritionist I spoke to briefly on the phone to find a suitable one would say something along the lines of "its all about the gut"... and their frustrations were that this wasn't a common thought of approach (yes they were private and therefore paid)..

"It's all about the gut" seems like something very unprofessional to be frank. Their frustrations probably lie in the fact that this wouldn't be enough to justify funding, to be even more frank.

NAS51214 said:

My son's OAT test has come back that he has an infection in the gut.

This doesn't surprise me. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't specify the name of the "infection in the gut" either.

NAS51214 said:

He has no "physical symptoms" and would not get tested on the nhs for this.

There's a reason for that. I'd imagine that results that are as vague as "an infection in the gut", and a basis in giving information such as "it's all about the gut", are pretty unprofessional.

NAS51214 said:

However, he is non verbal, has sensory challengers, and can stim all day.  He is autistic.

This is my main concern, as your son is non-verbal, there is a barrier in feedback from the child.

Also stims aren't necessarily bad, sometimes it's a way of relieving what an autitic person is feeling inside. Stimming can be theraputic, and a form of relief for sensory challenges. Sometimes stimming can help solve a lot of problems with tension, and help sensory problems.

NAS51214 said:

Just to be clear the OAT isn't just genetic testing, but it gives recommendations of quantities of probiotics I need to give (which is significantly more than Ive been currently giving), immune system, infections and much more.

I'd imagine the people giving these tests, also market the probiotics, and tell you how much you need to use. It's a pretty good "business model".

NAS51214 said:

I also then saw a clip from great plain lab which linked yeast to stimming with sensory challengers. 

Like I said previously Great Plain Labs pretty much hold a monopoly on this. It's a cynical advert, using emotional blackmail, uncited information, and confusing "medical" jargon to draw people in. Here is a link from a reputable website. It also states the loops that companies such as Great Plains Labs, use so that they can operate in the US, luckily the NHS is a little wiser.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/new-fda-regulatory-role-threatens-bogus-diagnostic-tests/

Funnily enough, Great Plains Labs have made the links to their criticised tests unaccessible. If they had nothing to hide, I'd imagine they'd have just left them up.

I also provided a link to peer reviewed information on this issue.

I suggest anyone reading to be aware that OAT testing is a scam.

Sorry to be as blunt as I've been, but allowing people such as this to scam the Autistic Community, isn't something I'm comfortable with. Reading that list in the link that I provided last night seems a lot of people, with a lot of conditions are marks too, I'm not comfortable with that either. They are preying on the vulnerable, and desperate.

Again all the best, and I hope you find a way for you all to manage.

Cloudy

Hi, again I know I must seem to be really down on this but I can understand why symptoms would seem to improve if a non verbal child was uncomfortable and not able to communicate this them stimming would increase reducing discomfort would improve things so this is a plus 

But I wonder if you are aware that the major endorsement of the book you recommend is a doctor involved in the UK study you mentioned he also was a firm supporter of the debunked mmr theory 

I don't doubt that if a child is more comfortable they will improve so that is good just be careful is all I can say and I would say that with any alternative biomedical approach

Good luck x

Hi all

Thank you for all your replies - and the very detailed ones.  Very interesting and thought provoking to say the least.

I'm not here to persuade or try and influence anyone, I just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts or personal experience as this is a big unknown for me and like you have said.. is costly.

There are a few things I have read up on and wanted to share.

University of Birmingham in the UK done the studies in the 1990s testing the urine and exploring the theory of leaky gut amongst other things (diary and gluten).  The book below was a great read for me and talks positively about it.  It does seem like this "idea" has been around for a significant amount of time.  And therefore you will naturally get others trying to make money by interpreting the results wrongly...but wonder whether there is credibility in the tests themselves if interrupted correctly.

https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/9781885477446?gC=5a105e8b&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIw5m3yKvF4AIVWYXVCh2oFQ7-EAkYAiABEgL8nvD_BwE

I also then saw a clip from great plain lab which linked yeast to stimming with sensory challengers. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3TAvjdKSeY

But what keeps getting me, is that no physical tests at all seem to be carried out in the UK.  We look at speech and language, occupational therapy, educational therapists plus more which I really value but no where along the line has any of these professionals ever mentioned to me to even look at diet, or to look at probiotics (which many of us seem to believe can help).  I have been on this journey for over a couple of years now as my 2 children are going through the system and being diagnosed.  I just feel there is a massive gap between the two approaches - here in the UK, and other countries. 

I spent some time finding a nutritionist (we dont have one available on the NHS) who could interpret the OAT results.  Every nutritionist I spoke to briefly on the phone to find a suitable one would say something along the lines of "its all about the gut"... and their frustrations were that this wasn't a common thought of approach (yes they were private and therefore paid)..

My son's OAT test has come back that he has an infection in the gut.  He has no "physical symptoms" and would not get tested on the nhs for this.  However, he is non verbal, has sensory challengers, and can stim all day.  He is autistic.

I completely understand the comments to be careful - much appreciated and will bear that in mind every step of the way.

Just to be clear the OAT isn't just genetic testing, but it gives recommendations of quantities of probiotics I need to give (which is significantly more than Ive been currently giving), immune system, infections and much more.

If anyone has gone on a similar journey, or about to start please get in touch.  Thanks again.

No problem whatsoever!

Thank you

There is. People with autism are more susceptible to IBS, Coeliac's Disease, and Diverticulitis. However, this link has nothing to do with "Leaky Gut Syndrome", and is simply genetic. These people seem to use the link as a draw too. In my opinion, avoid!

Hello there,

Remember there is no cure for autism, as of yet.

Most "Leaky Gut Syndrome" testing is promoted by Great Plains Laboratory, who have shifted to different target demographics over around 30 years. ME, Insomnia, Diabetes, Acne, Eczema, Huntington's Disease, risk of stroke, risk of dementia, HIV related complications, ADHD, Depression, Cancer, Headaches, "Mood changes", and things such as premature aging, plus weight gain.

Seems like it is the solution for everything. Which makes me all the more doubtful.

I find it very hard to trust in it just because of the way the marketing targets extreme desperation, fear of death, and things that may cause extreme insecurities. Desperation, fear, and despair are powerful marketing tools to some. 

It also targets conditions that haven't been sufficiently researched yet. Including autism.

Remember autism is in a stage where it is still being understood, they don't even have a real, solid indication of what causes it. This leaves holes for the quacks to peddle their false therapies, and cures. Autism is a relatively untapped revenue stream, but companies, and modern day Snake Oil salesmen are realising this quickly. This "therapy" is mainly marketed in the US, remember they also have ABA in the US, which is basically torture, which parents pay for, and causes more problems than it solves. They also market Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation to parents, which basically does nothing.

Here a are a few articles highlighting the validity of OAT testing, also called Intestinal Permeability Testing. Lab Tests Online is peer reviewed, so it's quite trustworthy.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/here-be-dragons-caring-for-children-in-a-dangerous-sea-of-scam/

https://labtestsonline.org.uk/tests/unvalidated-or-misleading-laboratory-tests

This guy is a big advocate of OAT. He has a big online presence and is a media figure.

https://drjockers.com/organic-acids-test-functional-health/

Read the list of what he says it can do. Impossible.

Also......

https://drjockers.com/about/

Read the part "From Dr. Jockers". Any doctor that says "Many years ago God spoke into me and gave me a vision of my life. He put a passion inside my heart to clean the living temple of God by creating a powerful resource for community health and clean, principled living. As I pursued this vision, God blessed me with the knowledge, skills, and education to instruct, encourage and empower individuals to have more faith in their own God-given ability to heal naturally."

He's throwing a bit of religious stuff in there too to exploit the faithful, in my opinion.

I'm not knocking you for looking into it, far from it, helping your children, and yourself manage easier is admirable.

A bit ranty, but I hate to see people exploited.

All the best to you and yours,

Cloudy

Hi there, I have never heard of it but I do think there is some kind of link to the gut and autism. I first heard about the link in the book Freaks Geeks and Aspergers. I read it a time when my lad was first diagnosed (6) with being on the spectrum so was looking into the autism aspects of the book and didn't really take in the links to tummy problems.  However, I now have a teenage boy who has really bad tummy trouble and looks like he's got inflammatory Bowel Disease. Thank you, I am going to look into this further. 

Sorry to post again but after some reading it seems most of the companies offering this oat test tie back to one in the states.

Also here is the NHS link for leaking gut syndrome 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/leaky-gut-syndrome/

I know alot of people report good things for probiotic diets and zinc supplements but all I am saying is please be careful with childrens diets I wish you all the best x

I've never even heard of it.

Hi, please be wary of such things especially if it is costing you money. I have done alot of reading (no expert)  but this theory seems to have been disproved. Alot of parents report good results with probiotic diets but..

Doctors here don't really consider it as the studies done didn't really support it